What HeiCha are you drinking

Puerh and other heicha
polezaivsani
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Fri Oct 30, 2020 11:54 am

@wave_code, it never hurts to ask if they are willing to help you out, they seem like pretty open minded folks. Though i do agree that offering samples for sale could be useful - they have another mysterious 'cow pie' weighing half a kilo, priced at 1 Euro/gram - no idea how to approach it :roll:.
Chris
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Fri Oct 30, 2020 9:53 pm

Other than shou puerh (usually not a fan) and some limited Liu Bao and Liu An experience, I haven't had much heicha before. But I thought it was cool this thread has been so active and decided to give it a try!

After a month stuck in Shanghai, an order of random samples from Yunnan Sourcing has arrived. I should let the tea rest... and I will, but lately I let myself try a little bit right away to see how it compares when (if) it opens up later.

So, now I'm drinking 2015 Gao Jia Shan "Cha Duo Tang", about 5 grams in a ~85 ml gaiwan. I'm 4 or 5 infusions in not paying careful attention to steeping times-- maybe around 10-15 seconds. It seems fine with this approach.

It's very mild and sweet, like a kind of wet woody sweetness. From all the stems? There is a warm, stone fruit-like aspect to it, too. Smooth texture. In some ways, it reminds me of hojicha and mugicha.

Overall it seems like a friendly, enjoyable tea, and very inexpensive! Obviously very different than shou puerh, which was my general idea of how it might taste. Looking forward to trying the rest of my samples.

Thank you guys for the inspiration to explore something new!
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wave_code
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Sat Oct 31, 2020 12:10 pm

Its been a rainy week here, so walking through the woods today all the leaves are coming down and starting to decay, so having a tea to match seemed fitting. Wuhou 5501 was a nice fit- good wetter storage character but not too strong, dark chocolate, slowly getting sweeter with a taste and smell to match the season. Its got a nice feel to it too. Just a little bit of energy but also relaxing, so puts you in a nice mood without you also feeling like you are struggling to keep your eyes open. I think this is the most wet stored tea I have and I am coming around to liking it more and more -its making me think I really need to try more HK stored teas.
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Balthazar
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Thu Nov 05, 2020 12:38 pm

@wave_code: What's the "Wuhou 5501", a liubao? Hong Kong storage has my interest piqued..
Chris wrote:
Fri Oct 30, 2020 9:53 pm
It's very mild and sweet, like a kind of wet woody sweetness. From all the stems? There is a warm, stone fruit-like aspect to it, too. Smooth texture. In some ways, it reminds me of hojicha and mugicha.
That's GJS for ya. "Wet woody sweetness" and "stone fruit-like aspect" really hits the mark :)
Chris wrote:
Fri Oct 30, 2020 9:53 pm
Overall it seems like a friendly, enjoyable tea, and very inexpensive! Obviously very different than shou puerh, which was my general idea of how it might taste. Looking forward to trying the rest of my samples.
Yeah, a lot of people are surprised when they first try anhua heichas (especially those whose only other experience with heicha is liubao teas, as was the case for me). As you've discovered there really is no resemblance to shu puer at all. While there's a large variation in taste, if anything I'd say a really nice anhua heicha (particular good heizhuan bricks) is like a mix of yancha minerality and white tea fruitiness. With a slight note of pine smoke on top, which sounds like a rather odd thing to throw into the mix, but works really well (unless overdone).

Let us know how you find the rest of your samples.

I'm currently sipping on a GJS myself, a quick boil of the leaves after 10 steeps. Normally I'd do a few more normal steeps first, but it's too late in the evening. Anyways, this is a 2018 fu brick that I picked up from the GJS Taobao flagship store. Before I opened up the brick, I tried the three samples they provided, which had me slightly worried as they were all rather bad. Thankfully this brick isn't. Although it's a tad too strong in the pine smoke department for my preferences (unlike any other GJS I've had, in this respect). A couple years of aging should subdue that, which can only do this one good.

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wave_code
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Fri Nov 06, 2020 8:51 am

Balthazar wrote:
Thu Nov 05, 2020 12:38 pm
wave_code: What's the "Wuhou 5501", a liubao? Hong Kong storage has my interest piqued..
its a typo is what it is. liu bao? woohoo! I meant Wuzhou/cofco. also to be more accurate my guess would be that it wasn't actually stored in HK, but rather Singapore in a wetter HK style warehouse seeing as the box has a picture of the Singapore skyline on it. maybe its cheaper to warehouse there and imitate HK storage at this point? whatever the reason I like the result. if you google for 'nanyang story 5501' it should come up. I got the box from Lao, but I think they are out of stock now, maybe they will get more. I know if they did I wouldn't mind picking up another one. I think theres two versions of it, the brown box one I have, and a newer one in a blue box which I haven't tried yet. Both seem available from various Chinese cart sites but they are ones I've never ordered from so can't vouch for any of them. Dragon Tea House seems to have the blue box, but their liu bao is always super overpriced to me so I'm sure it can be had cheaper elsewhere. I think I paid something like 45-55eu for the box when I got it.

Opened up a basket of 803 today. Always good.

I am still fu cha curious, but if the Bitterleaf Gold Dust is an indication of the kind of flavor profiles to expect overall maybe its not for me. Too much stone fruit flavor to it. I'm really not big on things like peaches. Maybe I need to find some to try that are more on the pine smoke and heavier side.
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Balthazar
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Fri Nov 06, 2020 9:59 am

wave_code wrote:
Fri Nov 06, 2020 8:51 am
if you google for 'nanyang story 5501' it should come up. I got the box from Lao, but I think they are out of stock now, maybe they will get more. I know if they did I wouldn't mind picking up another one. I think theres two versions of it, the brown box one I have, and a newer one in a blue box which I haven't tried yet. Both seem available from various Chinese cart sites but they are ones I've never ordered from so can't vouch for any of them. Dragon Tea House seems to have the blue box, but their liu bao is always super overpriced to me so I'm sure it can be had cheaper elsewhere. I think I paid something like 45-55eu for the box when I got it.
Ah yes, that did the trick. Seems like a nice one! The blue one seems to be a newer package, or at least that's the impression from checking some Taobao vendors (brown box in the years 2015-17, blue box since 2018).

Maybe I'll pick up a box next time I make a Taobao order.
wave_code wrote:
Fri Nov 06, 2020 8:51 am
I am still fu cha curious, but if the Bitterleaf Gold Dust is an indication of the kind of flavor profiles to expect overall maybe its not for me. Too much stone fruit flavor to it. I'm really not big on things like peaches. Maybe I need to find some to try that are more on the pine smoke and heavier side.
Something from Bai Sha Xi or Gao Ma Er Xi should be a safe bet. But it's probably true that it's not going to be for everybody. Personally, I find most heizhuans more interesting than most fuzhuans (flavorwise).
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debunix
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Sat Nov 07, 2020 10:52 am

Balthazar wrote:
Thu Nov 05, 2020 12:38 pm
Yeah, a lot of people are surprised when they first try anhua heichas (especially those whose only other experience with heicha is liubao teas, as was the case for me). As you've discovered there really is no resemblance to shu puer at all. While there's a large variation in taste, if anything I'd say a really nice anhua heicha (particular good heizhuan bricks) is like a mix of yancha minerality and white tea fruitiness. With a slight note of pine smoke on top, which sounds like a rather odd thing to throw into the mix, but works really well (unless overdone).
OK, now you've got me very curious. White tea fruitiness? The two HeiCha I have purchased from Yunnan Sourcing have been very much along the earthy-malty spectrum, with at most hints of plum (2015 Gao Jia Shan "Cha Duo Tang" Wild Harvested Hunan Fu Brick Tea & 2012 Gao Jia Shan "Wild Tian Jian" in a Bamboo Basket).

(the nightcap mentioned above is sold out now)

Can anyone suggest a currently available fruity-mineralicious Anhua and a link to a source?
Last edited by debunix on Sat Nov 07, 2020 1:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
thommes
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Sat Nov 07, 2020 12:45 pm

wave_code wrote:
Fri Nov 06, 2020 8:51 am
I am still fu cha curious, but if the Bitterleaf Gold Dust is an indication of the kind of flavor profiles to expect overall maybe its not for me. Too much stone fruit flavor to it. I'm really not big on things like peaches. Maybe I need to find some to try that are more on the pine smoke and heavier side.
Hmmm... I did not get the fruity flavor with the Gold Dust. However, I did get a cherry flavor with the Nightcap which I love so I ordered another kilo. I've drank about 75g of the Gold Dust and just didn't pick up on a fruit flavor. Ordered another 250g of Gold Dust so I'll see how this batch tastes.
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Balthazar
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Sat Nov 07, 2020 1:46 pm

debunix wrote:
Sat Nov 07, 2020 10:52 am
OK, now you've got me very curious. White tea fruitiness? The two HeiCha I have purchased from Yunnan Sourcing have been very much along the earthy-malty spectrum, with at most hints of plum (2015 Gao Jia Shan "Cha Duo Tang" Wild Harvested Hunan Fu Brick Tea & 2012 Gao Jia Shan "Wild Tian Jian" in a Bamboo Basket).

Can anyone suggest a currently available fruity-mineralicious Anhua and a link to a source?
Here the very real poverty of my flavor vocabulary reveals itself. "White tea fruitiness" is not a good description :mrgreen:

I was thinking of the notes I recall from more "fruity" varieties of bai mu dan (which admittedly I haven't had for some years), stone fruit flavor may be a more accurate term. You're likely to find it in Gao Jia Shan heizhuans - (less likely to do so in fuzhuans and very unlikely to do so in a tian jian) - although it's it's more of a lingering (but clearly distinguishable) background taste rather than something that dominates. I seem to recall finding it in the 2009 Gao Jia Shan "Wild Fu Zhuan", but it's not a part of the description on YS (or mentioned by the reviewers), so who knows, maybe there's something odd with my taste buds... In any case, that tea is well worth trying if you haven't done so.

In any case, the picture I painted of the taste landscape of "really nice" Anhua heicha is definitely not complete. Maltiness is of course a staple, but more so in the fuzhuans than the heizhuans I've tried.

My recommendation for an Anhua heicha with a really brilliant minerality taste and a very slight fruitiness would be the 2017 Yun Tai Shan Huang Shan (heizhuan). Unfortunately I don't think it's available from any "western facing" vendor. As far as I know it's more or less sold out in Malaysia too (where Anhua heicha is a pretty big deal, and prices are often better than in Mainland China...). I ended up buying a brick from this taobao/tmall vendor myself. The 2019 version should be more readily available (but unfortunately that too is probably not available from any "western facing" vendor) and from what I hear has less pine smoke and an even richer minerality taste. I'll know for sure once Malaysia's post opens up again and my bricks reach me :)

Another recommendation of a similar (but not quite as spectacular, imo) is the 2018 Bai Sha Xi Furong Guoli. I don't think that one's easily available here in the west either, unfortunately. There really is a dearth of access to Anhua heicha in general and high quality heizhuans in particular.
polezaivsani
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Sat Nov 07, 2020 2:56 pm

Been looking to get my cups wet with hei zhuans too and read about 2017 Yun Tai shan only yesterday. @Balthazar, can you tell which is any of these (Yun Tai shan and Gao Jia shan) has more of pine coolness to it? I've had good deal of that pine resin with an overall cooling sensation in qing zhuan and seem that similar profile is mentioned frequently with regards to hei zhuans.
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wave_code
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Sat Nov 07, 2020 3:08 pm

@Balthazar speaking of HK storage I happened to check TeaLife today and looks like this just popped up- https://www.tealifehk.com/products/2020 ... iubao-100g

HK storage with a relaxing cha qi sounds pretty good, and at a daily drinker price point too. Very tempting...
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debunix
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Sat Nov 07, 2020 4:13 pm

wave_code wrote:
Sat Nov 07, 2020 3:08 pm
stone fruit flavor may be a more accurate term. You're likely to find it in Gao Jia Shan heizhuans - (less likely to do so in fuzhuans and very unlikely to do so in a tian jian) - although it's it's more of a lingering (but clearly distinguishable) background taste rather than something that dominates
It's past time to rearrange my tea storage--as I was reminded when others noticed the trunk funk on some puerhs I brought to a tasting to share--and grab some pieces of the Gao Jia Shans I have to check for those stone fruit notes.
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Balthazar
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Sun Nov 08, 2020 3:54 am

polezaivsani wrote:
Sat Nov 07, 2020 2:56 pm
Been looking to get my cups wet with hei zhuans too and read about 2017 Yun Tai shan only yesterday. Balthazar, can you tell which is any of these (Yun Tai shan and Gao Jia shan) has more of pine coolness to it? I've had good deal of that pine resin with an overall cooling sensation in qing zhuan and seem that similar profile is mentioned frequently with regards to hei zhuans.
So far, the YTS (Huangshan) heizhuan has been made in 2016 (very small batch), 2017 and 2019 (there was no 2018 production edit: this turned out to be wrong, had a look at their wechat-page and they do list a 2018-production!). I've only had the 2017 version. If "pine coolness" means the same to you as I think it does to me, then it's definitely to be found in the 2017 YTS Huangshan heizhuan.

I've tried more teas from GJS. I can't say I've found what I would call "pine coolness" in the one's I've tried. Then again, I've not tried many of their heizhuans (have two, from 2009 and 2012, waiting to be shipped once the post opens up again).

I can't give a definite answer. Both producers are well worth checking out, although I've heard people "in the know" saying that later productions from GJS has been disappointing compared to the earlier output. Based on my limited experience that checks out. Then again, YTS is generally speaking quite a bit pricier.
wave_code wrote:
Sat Nov 07, 2020 3:08 pm
Balthazar speaking of HK storage I happened to check TeaLife today and looks like this just popped up- https://www.tealifehk.com/products/2020 ... iubao-100g

HK storage with a relaxing cha qi sounds pretty good, and at a daily drinker price point too. Very tempting...
Interesting indeed! Although the "HK style storage" was actually done in Guangxi (props to Jay for the interesting product descriptions he provides). I'm adding this to the list of TeaLife HK's teas that I need to try...

If it turns out to be a good daily drinker you might as well get a 5 kg box from Taobao at $0.04 per gram :)
debunix wrote:
Sat Nov 07, 2020 4:13 pm
It's past time to rearrange my tea storage--as I was reminded when others noticed the trunk funk on some puerhs I brought to a tasting to share--and grab some pieces of the Gao Jia Shans I have to check for those stone fruit notes.
It'll be interesting to see what you find! Stone fruit notes or not, do let us know :)
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debunix
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Mon Nov 09, 2020 11:29 am

Trying to taste for white-tea fruitiness.....
First up, 2002 Aged Wild Liu Bao Tea "803" from Guangxi....earthy, hummus, some sweetess, no hint of fruity (wasn't expecting it in this Liu Bao), lasting infusions, mmm. So good I didn't want to cut the session short to go on to the Gao Jia Shans.
I think I have one of those at work, along with some Bai Mu Dan for proper preparation.
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Balthazar
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Mon Nov 09, 2020 12:38 pm

Hummus taste in a liubao, that's definitely interesting :). I rarely find anything umami-like in LBs.
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