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What is all the fuss around Red / Yellow / Green Marks?
Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2022 7:31 am
by Konrud
I see a lot that people mention those.
Could someone explain to me why they are so valuable?
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Re: What is all the fuss around Red / Yellow / Green Marks?
Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2022 9:29 am
by .m.
Re: What is all the fuss around Red / Yellow / Green Marks?
Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2022 9:54 am
by Konrud
Thank you.
That's unfortunate that even yunnansourcing.com sells those too, although they're not real ones.
Who can one trust then?
Re: What is all the fuss around Red / Yellow / Green Marks?
Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2022 10:24 am
by .m.
They are real, they're not fake at all (and the 8891 is not actually too bad). They are just not the famous ones, and they don't pretend to be. There is nothing wrong with having the "bazhong" mark on the wrapper or calling a tea "*** mark". It just doesn't mean much.
Re: What is all the fuss around Red / Yellow / Green Marks?
Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2022 1:12 pm
by Konrud
.m. wrote: ↑Fri Sep 09, 2022 10:24 am
They are real, they're not fake at all (and the 8891 is not actually too bad). They are just not the famous ones, and they don't pretend to be. There is nothing wrong with having the "bazhong" mark on the wrapper or calling a tea "*** mark". It just doesn't mean much.
I guess you're right.
It's just so hard to understand all that, at least in the beginning.
I believe I just need more time to learn it, well.
Re: What is all the fuss around Red / Yellow / Green Marks?
Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2022 1:27 pm
by DailyTX
.m. wrote: ↑Fri Sep 09, 2022 10:24 am
They are real, they're not fake at all (and the 8891 is not actually too bad). They are just not the famous ones, and they don't pretend to be. There is nothing wrong with having the "bazhong" mark on the wrapper or calling a tea "*** mark". It just doesn't mean much.
+1 8891 is a very nice entry Sheng puerh tea
Re: What is all the fuss around Red / Yellow / Green Marks?
Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2022 9:07 pm
by aet
I think that was around 2007 ( puerh fever times ) when Zhong Cha offered kinda " packaging franchise " , if that can be called like that.
Basically if you pay money they asked , you could use their wrapping ( their label ) for your own products .
I don't know how it exactly worked back then but from what I've heard , you just pay what they asked , use whatever you were pleased to press and wrap it into the Zhong Cha label.
So in theory from that period of time ( I think till 2010 when company COFCO bought the brand / company ) there is no Fake product.
The fake in this case could be counted the product made by producer who didn't pay required fee for this franchise concept and wrap it in Zhong Cha label,
yet in reality the material pressed might be better than from the producer who had paid that fee and has officially legit product
And yes , Zhong Cha label is the most confusing / faked label. You can buy identical wrapper , age , storage and tea inside can be very different...yet, based on above , neither of them is fake
Should you be interested into this one, I recommend sample it first and buy it right after you try it ( of course if like it ). Don't wait too long, because you don't know how much in stock the vendor has of this particular batch and it's very common with those generic labels to be sold without mention that different batch already.
Re: What is all the fuss around Red / Yellow / Green Marks?
Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2022 2:30 am
by Konrud
aet wrote: ↑Fri Sep 09, 2022 9:07 pm
I think that was around 2007 ( puerh fever times ) when Zhong Cha offered kinda " packaging franchise " , if that can be called like that.
Basically if you pay money they asked , you could use their wrapping ( their label ) for your own products .
I don't know how it exactly worked back then but from what I've heard , you just pay what they asked , use whatever you were pleased to press and wrap it into the Zhong Cha label.
So in theory from that period of time ( I think till 2010 when company COFCO bought the brand / company ) there is no Fake product.
The fake in this case could be counted the product made by producer who didn't pay required fee for this franchise concept and wrap it in Zhong Cha label,
yet in reality the material pressed might be better than from the producer who had paid that fee and has officially legit product
And yes , Zhong Cha label is the most confusing / faked label. You can buy identical wrapper , age , storage and tea inside can be very different...yet, based on above , neither of them is fake
Should you be interested into this one, I recommend sample it first and buy it right after you try it ( of course if like it ). Don't wait too long, because you don't know how much in stock the vendor has of this particular batch and it's very common with those generic labels to be sold without mention that different batch already.
Thank you.
That's a good note.
I'll definitely consider it.
So basically to get the "real" "*** label" is now almost (unless you find it and pay a huge amount of money) impossible.
Re: What is all the fuss around Red / Yellow / Green Marks?
Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2022 9:53 am
by mrmopu
Konrud wrote: ↑Sat Sep 10, 2022 2:30 am
aet wrote: ↑Fri Sep 09, 2022 9:07 pm
I think that was around 2007 ( puerh fever times ) when Zhong Cha offered kinda " packaging franchise " , if that can be called like that.
Basically if you pay money they asked , you could use their wrapping ( their label ) for your own products .
I don't know how it exactly worked back then but from what I've heard , you just pay what they asked , use whatever you were pleased to press and wrap it into the Zhong Cha label.
So in theory from that period of time ( I think till 2010 when company COFCO bought the brand / company ) there is no Fake product.
The fake in this case could be counted the product made by producer who didn't pay required fee for this franchise concept and wrap it in Zhong Cha label,
yet in reality the material pressed might be better than from the producer who had paid that fee and has officially legit product
And yes , Zhong Cha label is the most confusing / faked label. You can buy identical wrapper , age , storage and tea inside can be very different...yet, based on above , neither of them is fake
Should you be interested into this one, I recommend sample it first and buy it right after you try it ( of course if like it ). Don't wait too long, because you don't know how much in stock the vendor has of this particular batch and it's very common with those generic labels to be sold without mention that different batch already.
Thank you.
That's a good note.
I'll definitely consider it.
So basically to get the "real" "*** label" is now almost (unless you find it and pay a huge amount of money) impossible.
Depends somewhat on where you search or find it at. Some of those Zhong Cha wrappers were used by the major producers as well. Menghai and XiaGuan for sure used them. After standardization it gets a little better but you need to know the differences in wrappers and seals and even how they are wrapped. Loads of fame Menghai stuff out there and seems TaoBao and such are full of them.
Re: What is all the fuss around Red / Yellow / Green Marks?
Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2022 10:32 am
by LeoFox
Konrud wrote: ↑Sat Sep 10, 2022 2:30 am
aet wrote: ↑Fri Sep 09, 2022 9:07 pm
I think that was around 2007 ( puerh fever times ) when Zhong Cha offered kinda " packaging franchise " , if that can be called like that.
Basically if you pay money they asked , you could use their wrapping ( their label ) for your own products .
I don't know how it exactly worked back then but from what I've heard , you just pay what they asked , use whatever you were pleased to press and wrap it into the Zhong Cha label.
So in theory from that period of time ( I think till 2010 when company COFCO bought the brand / company ) there is no Fake product.
The fake in this case could be counted the product made by producer who didn't pay required fee for this franchise concept and wrap it in Zhong Cha label,
yet in reality the material pressed might be better than from the producer who had paid that fee and has officially legit product
And yes , Zhong Cha label is the most confusing / faked label. You can buy identical wrapper , age , storage and tea inside can be very different...yet, based on above , neither of them is fake
Should you be interested into this one, I recommend sample it first and buy it right after you try it ( of course if like it ). Don't wait too long, because you don't know how much in stock the vendor has of this particular batch and it's very common with those generic labels to be sold without mention that different batch already.
Thank you.
That's a good note.
I'll definitely consider it.
So basically to get the "real" "*** label" is now almost (unless you find it and pay a huge amount of money) impossible.
You will also encounter plenty of people who strongly believe x or y vendor is the real deal or that the real stuff can be easily found based on xyz formula. Often these people sunk a lot of money and pride into hunting for these blends - who knows what they know is true or not - but they sure will say their source or their knowledge is legit.
Better to just go with your taste buds.
Re: What is all the fuss around Red / Yellow / Green Marks?
Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2022 12:45 pm
by Konrud
LeoFox wrote: ↑Sat Sep 10, 2022 10:32 am
...Better to just go with your taste buds.
Yep, I think you're right.
Re: What is all the fuss around Red / Yellow / Green Marks?
Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2022 5:48 pm
by Acc Hugh
I think u meant these products from 1950s-1970s.
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Most obvious craze to these products are due to their material used. GuShu material.
At the time there was no GuShu concept nor the concept of as u age pu'er the better it gets.
The main consumption target was young leaves beautifully processed like green teas.
So that makes these marked pu'er at that time authentic GuShu grade pu'er, people who are of age right now have not much time remaining to age pure GuShu on their own, time is money, money is time. Who doesnt want to get their hands on these deliciousness right now?
Re: What is all the fuss around Red / Yellow / Green Marks?
Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2022 2:31 am
by Konrud
Acc Hugh wrote: ↑Thu Sep 15, 2022 5:48 pm
I think u meant these products from 1950s-1970s.
Most obvious craze to these products are due to their material used. GuShu material.
At the time there was no GuShu concept nor the concept of as u age pu'er the better it gets.
The main consumption target was young leaves beautifully processed like green teas.
So that makes these marked pu'er at that time authentic GuShu grade pu'er, people who are of age right now have not much time remaining to age pure GuShu on their own, time is money, money is time. Who doesnt want to get their hands on these deliciousness right now?
Good insight. Thank you.
I guess there is no easy way, well if at all, to get those or at least something similar in quality.
Re: What is all the fuss around Red / Yellow / Green Marks?
Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2022 1:50 pm
by Acc Hugh
Konrud wrote: ↑Sat Sep 17, 2022 2:31 am
Good insight. Thank you.
I guess there is no easy way, well if at all, to get those or at least something similar in quality.
Insight as in my own opinion? I did not make assumptions on them. They are pretty much public information with some historical details on Pu'er.
Yes u are right, they are really expensive to get, and are regularly listed for bids on auction houses. If we were to get them right from the streets/internet, high chance of fakes everywhere.
of similar quality: blended GuShu grade aged past 30 years? The 1988s' Green cakes are very popular too with mainly GuShu material. Yup fakes for these are also sold everywhere.
https://baike.baidu.com/item/88%E9%9D%9 ... BC/1466128
Are aged GuShu grade teas hard to buy? Yes with some difficulty, wherever there is money to be made, the industry is sure to faux replicate them in so many ways to get a piece of that rich market share. Pu'er aged over 20 years is considered v.delicious, how many cakes can last past aged 30? Besides GuShu is of very limited production, they are in the hands of collectors, hardly see them in mass market.
Reputable vendors will discourage, in this case me, to buy really aged pu'er past 20 years. Their reasoning is simple, they are indeed delicious yes, and they cost a bomb. Its better for them to age past 30 years n beyond to charge a bigger bomb to some CEOs who view that kind of costs as chump change. For regular consumers they recommend buying mid-aged like 10 years +/- and age them on your own and enjoy them when it reaches 20 year aged.
Re: What is all the fuss around Red / Yellow / Green Marks?
Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2022 10:56 pm
by mbanu
If you want a detailed answer, there is a book,
Puer Tea: Ancient Caravans and Urban Chic, by Jinghong Zhang. There is a group of people who have an affinity for a certain time, and the money to pay for a trip in the time machine.
It would have been cheaper to collect something else from that era, but tea has a special appeal because it is a cultural product, and in cake form it hearkens back to an even earlier time.
This appeal is exacerbated by gift-culture, as once something becomes expensive, it remains expensive if giving it to someone else flatters the receiver. I'm sure there is a good amount of expensive fermented tea sitting in the houses of people who don't even like puer, but who accepted it as a byproduct of business dealings or similar gift-givings.
If you mean specifically in English, this is a primarily due to Chan Kam Pong, a Hong Konger who picked up the Taiwanese enthusiasm for puer tea, but had the access of someone who was surrounded by dimsum restaurants and their tea-dealers. He wrote
First Step to Chinese Puerh Tea and was a regular poster on the earliest English-language puer groups, such as the old LiveJournal puerh-tea group.