Types of sheng

Puerh and other heicha
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LeoFox
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Sun Jul 31, 2022 6:28 am

When I say, I don't really like sheng, people tend to mention that sheng is diverse, and that I should give all the categories a go before giving up on this category of tea.

Are these the general categories (excepting fakes) available?
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Last edited by LeoFox on Mon Aug 01, 2022 7:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
.m.
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Sun Jul 31, 2022 9:03 am

I don't see much point in categorizing. It's more about trying "good" puerh and understanding what makes it "good" and what "good" means.
Obviously different people have very different preferences and notions of what makes "good" puerh. E.g.:
- good taste and mouthfeel,
- strong throat feeling,
- Qi (kind of meaningless unless further elaborated, because different people give it different meaning),
- representing some kind of classic taste ("old school", famous factory production, HK storage, etc.),
- representing terroir
- ...
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mrmopu
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Sun Jul 31, 2022 9:45 am

Puerh can be a personal experience. Everyone gets different notes and feels off it. We are all unique in our bodies and I think that is why the experience can vary. Well stored sheng and honing in on the areas you like can be a guide to you. All the different areas turn out different notes in the teas produced there. There is a lot of Pulong lately which means the tea is made to be consumed fresh. Processing style is very different from older productions. My worry on these is how will they age as time goes on compared to the older productions. I would sample teas from a per se dedicated vendor. Their items will be much more refined vs a amazon style vendor who carries a large variety.
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LeoFox
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Sun Jul 31, 2022 12:00 pm

I've tried from so called "good vendors" (I consider ys = garbage) specimens of:

Young boutique (hojo, eot, yunnan craft, white2tea (or maybe white2tea is garbage too))

Dry semi aged boutique (yunnan craft)

Semi aged Natural storage boutique ( malaysia stored from friends),

natural storage factory (anmo, samples from friends),

young factory (gift tea to dad),

dry semi aged factory (yunnan craft, gift tea to dad),

traditional storage factory (various places in Hong Kong during 2013 visit)

I would say only a few young boutique, dry semi aged boutique and semi aged natural storage boutique were "nice" for me - and only one dry semi aged boutique moved me enough to get a cake (2012 yiwu from yunnan craft). None of the factory stuff has been appealing at all. The nastiest to me has been young factory and traditional storage. Semi aged young factory also had some nasty surprises- made extra nasty by the price.

I haven't tried any really old factory though. These seem to be plagued by fakes. Same with famous mountains of any age.

Based on these experiences, id rather spend the bulk of my money on greens and oolong- but am willing to explore casually for learning purposes - mainly via yunnan craft.
Last edited by LeoFox on Sun Jul 31, 2022 7:47 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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TeaTotaling
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Sun Jul 31, 2022 3:13 pm

@LeoFox I have had similar lackluster experiences with Sheng regarding a majority of the aforementioned.

I tend to gravitate toward younger Sheng and good ones are out there but few and far between for the West, it seems, according to my tastes.

The best I have had was a fresh Xi Gui from Yanni of YAG. It escapes me where she got it from, but it’s not a Western facing vendor. It was a refined yet powerful Sheng. I plowed through 400g’s, it was that good. Very sweet and floral.

I will be sampling a variety from Kiwon and I’ll let you know how it goes.
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LeoFox
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Sun Jul 31, 2022 4:33 pm

TeaTotaling wrote:
Sun Jul 31, 2022 3:13 pm
LeoFox I have had similar lackluster experiences with Sheng regarding a majority of the aforementioned.

I tend to gravitate toward younger Sheng and good ones are out there but few and far between for the West, it seems, according to my tastes.

The best I have had was a fresh Xi Gui from Yanni of YAG. It escapes me where she got it from, but it’s not a Western facing vendor. It was a refined yet powerful Sheng. I plowed through 400g’s, it was that good. Very sweet and floral.

I will be sampling a variety from Kiwon and I’ll let you know how it goes.
Wow, sounds exciting!
Andrew S
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Mon Aug 01, 2022 1:26 am

It may be a minor point in this context, but I would draw a further distinction between "traditional" and "wet" storage.

For me, the former involves using wet storage (that is, a controlled but very humid environment) for a relatively short period (months or a few years) to kick-start the ageing process, after which a more naturally humid environment takes over, whereas the latter involves storing something in a wet environment for long enough that it is no longer really recognisable as a raw tea.

I suppose that another distinction is between puer made to be aged, and 'pulong' / 'poolong' made to be consumed young.

However, I'm curious about which attributes you've enjoyed in the puers that you have liked so far.

I really drink old puer mostly for the 'qi' and also because it is compatible with my constitution (unlike young, 'cold', astringent raw puer. That means that I cannot stand young puer even if it is from a 'boutique' producer with a good reputation, because I simply don't enjoy the style, regardless of the quality. However, I appreciate that some people drink puer for the flavour, or the durability, or for other factors.

My own way of looking at it (which I think is not a particularly popular way of looking at it) is to draw a very sharp distinction between old humid puer and young raw puer (whether fresh or dry-stored), because they don't really share anything in common with one another. If someone likes old puer, they should drink that, without trying to replicate it at home. Similarly, if someone likes fresh raw puer, they should drink that, without feeling compelled to try to age it into something that loses that freshness.

Andrew
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LeoFox
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Mon Aug 01, 2022 7:03 am

Andrew S wrote:
Mon Aug 01, 2022 1:26 am
It may be a minor point in this context, but I would draw a further distinction between "traditional" and "wet" storage.

For me, the former involves using wet storage (that is, a controlled but very humid environment) for a relatively short period (months or a few years) to kick-start the ageing process, after which a more naturally humid environment takes over, whereas the latter involves storing something in a wet environment for long enough that it is no longer really recognisable as a raw tea.

I suppose that another distinction is between puer made to be aged, and 'pulong' / 'poolong' made to be consumed young.

However, I'm curious about which attributes you've enjoyed in the puers that you have liked so far.

I really drink old puer mostly for the 'qi' and also because it is compatible with my constitution (unlike young, 'cold', astringent raw puer. That means that I cannot stand young puer even if it is from a 'boutique' producer with a good reputation, because I simply don't enjoy the style, regardless of the quality. However, I appreciate that some people drink puer for the flavour, or the durability, or for other factors.

My own way of looking at it (which I think is not a particularly popular way of looking at it) is to draw a very sharp distinction between old humid puer and young raw puer (whether fresh or dry-stored), because they don't really share anything in common with one another. If someone likes old puer, they should drink that, without trying to replicate it at home. Similarly, if someone likes fresh raw puer, they should drink that, without feeling compelled to try to age it into something that loses that freshness.

Andrew
Thanks-added forced humid storage.
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mrmopu
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Tue Aug 02, 2022 9:26 am

LeoFox wrote:
Sun Jul 31, 2022 12:00 pm
I've tried from so called "good vendors" (I consider ys = garbage) specimens of:

Young boutique (hojo, eot, yunnan craft, white2tea (or maybe white2tea is garbage too))

Dry semi aged boutique (yunnan craft)

Semi aged Natural storage boutique ( malaysia stored from friends),

natural storage factory (anmo, samples from friends),

young factory (gift tea to dad),

dry semi aged factory (yunnan craft, gift tea to dad),

traditional storage factory (various places in Hong Kong during 2013 visit)

I would say only a few young boutique, dry semi aged boutique and semi aged natural storage boutique were "nice" for me - and only one dry semi aged boutique moved me enough to get a cake (2012 yiwu from yunnan craft). None of the factory stuff has been appealing at all. The nastiest to me has been young factory and traditional storage. Semi aged young factory also had some nasty surprises- made extra nasty by the price.

I haven't tried any really old factory though. These seem to be plagued by fakes. Same with famous mountains of any age.

Based on these experiences, id rather spend the bulk of my money on greens and oolong- but am willing to explore casually for learning purposes - mainly via yunnan craft.
Lots of hype by vendors for sure. I am just a bit down the road from you. If you ever travel Roanoke way let me know. I can also shoot you some samples of Taiwan stored stuff too. I think a lot of it is harder to find on our side. Don't give up! Took me over 7 years to come to realize sheng.
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LeoFox
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Tue Aug 02, 2022 10:52 am

Thanks Mr mopu for the kind offer! Haven't been down to Roanoke - deepest I've been in Virginia is around Charlottesville. Will drop you a message if I'm ever out that way for sure.
Andrew S
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Wed Aug 03, 2022 1:14 am

My own biased opinion is that it might be worthwhile for you to try some 90s or slightly older puer to see if you enjoy it (apologies if you have done so already; I couldn't quite tell). The prices can be painful of course (plus fakes, as you mention), but if you do like the style, then it can be an occasional treat.

You may enjoy younger or drier teas as well; they're not mutually exclusive, but I will leave it to others to talk about that topic, since I don't know anything about it.

It is unfortunate that Anmo doesn't seem to have that circa 2001 Fuhai (aka Fukhoi) cake from Sunsing anymore: it would have been my recommendation if you wanted to try something which is properly aged and neither too wet nor too dry (at least for my tastes, which favour humidity over dryness). It's a lovely example of what I call 'traditional' storage.

EoT's aged cakes would probably fit into your 'natural humid' category as a very broad generalisation (not quite as humid as I'd like, retaining a bit of their youth, but they're 'aged' rather than just old tea which still tastes 'raw'). Their 90s and earlier maocha are nice (for me, anyway), but I assume that you're looking at identifiable cakes rather than just some 'old puer'.

YeeOn has a few small samples of old tea available (their 80s 7542 is nice, fully aged, and suits my preferences). I have enjoyed their old cooked tea as well, but that's another topic.

Varat Phong (Guide to Puerh Tea) has some nice older teas which have had decent humidity from what I have tried, but they're not cheap (however, he does offer samples).

There will be other sources that I've neglected to mention or which don't know about. For example, I don't have any experience with TWL's puer but perhaps others here do.

Andrew
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