Cakes ID

Puerh and other heicha
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aet
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Wed Feb 10, 2021 10:22 pm

I probably interpreted it wrong way. So if I compare TB and small private producer selling on their own online platform ( also accessible to foreign buyers ) their tea...the TB is more expensive in matter of quality : price. I don't know if this explanation is more understandable.
The 357g pressed tea I offer for 11$ as an "educational" basic sheng puerh ( not even my tea ) , I know that my supplier of this product sells it on TB for 20$ and some of his customers for 30$ just in different wrapper...coz those are re-wrap biz concept cakes ( I was also offered those designs ) . I sell it for 11 and still making some $ on it.
That's all what I was going to say with this.
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chadao
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Wed Feb 10, 2021 10:54 pm

aet wrote:
Wed Feb 10, 2021 10:22 pm
I probably interpreted it wrong way. So if I compare TB and small private producer selling on their own online platform ( also accessible to foreign buyers ) their tea...the TB is more expensive in matter of quality : price. I don't know if this explanation is more understandable.
The 357g pressed tea I offer for 11$ as an "educational" basic sheng puerh ( not even my tea ) , I know that my supplier of this product sells it on TB for 20$ and some of his customers for 30$ just in different wrapper...coz those are re-wrap biz concept cakes ( I was also offered those designs ) . I sell it for 11 and still making some $ on it.
That's all what I was going to say with this.
Ah, now I see what you mean.
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Balthazar
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Thu Feb 11, 2021 12:28 am

aet wrote:
Wed Feb 10, 2021 10:22 pm
I probably interpreted it wrong way. So if I compare TB and small private producer selling on their own online platform ( also accessible to foreign buyers ) their tea...the TB is more expensive in matter of quality : price. I don't know if this explanation is more understandable.
The 357g pressed tea I offer for 11$ as an "educational" basic sheng puerh ( not even my tea ) , I know that my supplier of this product sells it on TB for 20$ and some of his customers for 30$ just in different wrapper...coz those are re-wrap biz concept cakes ( I was also offered those designs ) . I sell it for 11 and still making some $ on it.
That's all what I was going to say with this.
I understand better what you meant now.

But I don't think using rewrapped, unidentifiable cakes is really a very relevant comparison. Those are basically impossible for the end-consumer to compare the prize of and so their "market value" is hard to determine.

As for small private producers that target both the international market and TB, but sells for more on the latter platform, do you have some specific examples?

I understand and respect that it's probably a business secret, but I'll ask anyways (with no expectations of course :mrgreen: ): it would be interesting to see links to the cake you sell for $11 and to the TB-site of your supplier where it's listed at $20.

As I mentioned earlier, I personally don't believe TB is a great place to buy puer anymore, and I wouldn't buy anything young and basically unidentifiable from there. Certainly not $10-20 cakes. But I know for sure that I'd take TB over Aliexpress (which is what we were comparing originally), if those were the only two options available.
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aet
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Thu Feb 11, 2021 4:18 am

thats a while ago I saw some of those examples hanging on TB. I just remember the supplier showed me the other day , selling it for 170 CNY but in different wrapper I got.
Next time I come across with same situation , I’ll share the link.
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Maerskian
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Thu Feb 11, 2021 10:20 am

@Balthazar
Just out of curiosity: could you post a numerical example of a particular "bargain" cake bought off TB ? . It's been many years since those TB group buys and fees by then were different, right now i'm unfamiliar with 'em and just wondering about it.

I have this one example on my mind and wondering if it's possible to buy one single cake from TB for a similar price with the extra fees ( plus potential custom fees ) .

Not mentioning that tea for any particular reason, after all within that range i'd rather go with Moychay's affordable shu range, but works for this case.



@wave_code As far as i'm concerned feel free to stray off the main path as much as you want ;-)
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chadao
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Thu Feb 11, 2021 11:01 am

Maerskian wrote:
Thu Feb 11, 2021 10:20 am
Balthazar
Just out of curiosity: could you post a numerical example of a particular "bargain" cake bought off TB ? . It's been many years since those TB group buys and fees by then were different, right now i'm unfamiliar with 'em and just wondering about it.

I have this one example on my mind and wondering if it's possible to buy one single cake from TB for a similar price with the extra fees ( plus potential custom fees ) .

Not mentioning that tea for any particular reason, after all within that range i'd rather go with Moychay's affordable shu range, but works for this case.



wave_code As far as i'm concerned feel free to stray off the main path as much as you want ;-)
You can regularly get single cakes on TB for 39-100 kuai (about $7-20); you can even find purple zijuan cakes in that price range. Depending on how you order through Taobao (using an agent, or say, friends in China who will transship for you, but don't want 100kg of tea in their apartments) the transhipment is what adds the cost - a lot of agents refuse to ship tea in anything other than EMS due to customs requirements, etc., so you pay a fair bit in shipping but you at least see the cake in the same quarter that you ordered it. Provided you don't ship with DHL, tea is nontaxable in Canada, so I don't pay customs fees on anything. Surprised myself with a 40kg shipment that I needed a handtruck to move back to my storage place from the post office and a $0 customs fee.

I'm really honestly not ranking puer near the top of my favourite teas but I respect it and order some cakes (and will likely work with @aet to order a batch in the spring!) but I have found some interesting smaller producer/factory cakes on TB that, when comparing the same cakes with retailers here (and knowing how they mark up the cakes 300-400% from the TB price) I can get cheaper. Could I get them cheaper in China? Totally, but the borders are closed...
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Balthazar
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Thu Feb 11, 2021 2:54 pm

Maerskian wrote:
Thu Feb 11, 2021 10:20 am
Just out of curiosity: could you post a numerical example of a particular "bargain" cake bought off TB ? . It's been many years since those TB group buys and fees by then were different, right now i'm unfamiliar with 'em and just wondering about it.
I'm afraid I can't; I haven't bought puer from Taobao since 2014-15. And as mentioned, I don't really think there are that many great bargains to be had there anymore, in particular for the kind of puer I am interested in (a minimum of 10+ years, preferably with warm and humid storage). Pretty much the only kind of tea I get there these days is Anhua heicha, and only when I'm looking for something in particular that I can't get from a Malaysian source (which will be cheaper and have a storage more to my preference in most cases).

However, in a recent conversation with Crimson Lotus Tea, MarshalN mentioned a 2007 Chen Sheng Hao cake he recently ended up getting a couple of tongs of after having being pleasantly surprised by a gamble buy of a cake. At $40ish per cake that's definitely a bargain. But as he mentions, those are exceedingly rare at TB these days.

Maerskian wrote:
Thu Feb 11, 2021 10:20 am
I have this one example on my mind and wondering if it's possible to buy one single cake from TB for a similar price with the extra fees ( plus potential custom fees ) .
I couldn't find that particular cake at TB (but Taiwanese "Ruten" has it for slightly less than Aliexpress, of course that's before you take agent fees and shipping into account). It's a tea from Lancang (澜沧) Tea Factory. They have a TB-store where a slightly younger (2009) purple cake costs CNY 48. "Gushu" claim and everything :mrgreen:. No idea how it compares to the 2005 cake.

In any case, if shopping single cakes in this price range, it's going to be hard to justify the shipping and agent costs. Bulk orders are another matter.
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aet
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Fri Feb 12, 2021 4:45 am

Maerskian wrote:
Thu Feb 11, 2021 10:20 am

I have this one example on my mind and wondering if it's possible to buy one single cake from TB for a similar price with the extra fees ( plus potential custom fees ) .
I know that this question wasn't for me, but feel like to react ;-)..if u don't mind

Just imagine an extreme situation : the was obtained by vendor for free - 0$ , sold on Ali without any margin - 0$ , free membership for vendor on Ali - 0$ ( which both is nonsense but just for example ) , means that the tea cake gained only 1$ / per year as it's storage value ( that's 6 CNY ) ..u know what I mean ? ;-)

So close to reality the original price vendor purchased could be half ( but probably even less than that..I'd estimate 6$ ) . Annual Ali is couple of thousands $, + some advert perks if needed ( or just be visible in first 10 pages in search ) . Assuming due to low price of shipping , the vendor is in SZ or GZ , damn expensive place to live...I lived there 1 year, almost like in Europe.

We buy Zi Juan from Menghai farmer directly ...the guy has his own plantation. Tea there is cheaper than famous Jingmai. I do posses some knowledge about actual prices of this tea in general.
I can only assume based on my experience , that inside the wrapper is around 2 years GZ stored some Menghai summer harvest purple leaf. Nothing wrong with that you like it and I guess you are still getting good deal on it as you are not buying it in China.

Shipping fee only 1.99$ From KM to US via e-pack is around 11$ now ( coz Covid fee added ) , around 9$ without the cov.fee. I know they have cheaper shipping from SZ or GZ , but not 5x less than rest of China. So they basically doing the free shipping concept ( which is not free of course ) in different / smarter way , giving customers feeling they buying 16$ worth tea, instead make it look cheap like 10$ or something....as customer believes there is no other costs involved into the margin of tea if shipping is set separately.
Similar concepts are on flat rate shipping. ( national parcel can be done like that , but international no way ...each country has very different rates )

Anyway, the whole point I want to say here is, that one has to drink him / her self trough it ...in order to understand the price : quality ratio .
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Maerskian
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Fri Feb 12, 2021 8:51 am

chadao wrote:
Thu Feb 11, 2021 11:01 am
You can regularly get single cakes on TB for 39-100 kuai (about $7-20); you can even find purple zijuan cakes in that price range. Depending on how you order through Taobao (using an agent, or say, friends in China who will transship for you, but don't want 100kg of tea in their apartments) the transhipment is what adds the cost - a lot of agents refuse to ship tea in anything other than EMS due to customs requirements, etc., so you pay a fair bit in shipping but you at least see the cake in the same quarter that you ordered it. Provided you don't ship with DHL, tea is nontaxable in Canada, so I don't pay customs fees on anything. Surprised myself with a 40kg shipment that I needed a handtruck to move back to my storage place from the post office and a $0 customs fee.

I'm really honestly not ranking puer near the top of my favourite teas but I respect it and order some cakes (and will likely work with aet to order a batch in the spring!) but I have found some interesting smaller producer/factory cakes on TB that, when comparing the same cakes with retailers here (and knowing how they mark up the cakes 300-400% from the TB price) I can get cheaper. Could I get them cheaper in China? Totally, but the borders are closed...
Ah... a country where tea is tax free, another extra point to Canada's list.

Thanks a lot for sharing all of this, always love learning anything new and this certainly was.
Balthazar wrote:
Thu Feb 11, 2021 2:54 pm
I'm afraid I can't; I haven't bought puer from Taobao since 2014-15. And as mentioned, I don't really think there are that many great bargains to be had there anymore, in particular for the kind of puer I am interested in (a minimum of 10+ years, preferably with warm and humid storage). Pretty much the only kind of tea I get there these days is Anhua heicha, and only when I'm looking for something in particular that I can't get from a Malaysian source (which will be cheaper and have a storage more to my preference in most cases).

However, in a recent conversation with Crimson Lotus Tea, MarshalN mentioned a 2007 Chen Sheng Hao cake he recently ended up getting a couple of tongs of after having being pleasantly surprised by a gamble buy of a cake. At $40ish per cake that's definitely a bargain. But as he mentions, those are exceedingly rare at TB these days.
Thanks for taking the time.

In the end looks like Taobao has become essentially like any other marketplace ( although with extra steps for westerners ) and surely you can go treasure hunting if you invest enough time, the question is how much spare time you have for it and how much you think it's worth.
I couldn't find that particular cake at TB (but Taiwanese "Ruten" has it for slightly less than Aliexpress, of course that's before you take agent fees and shipping into account). It's a tea from Lancang (澜沧) Tea Factory. They have a TB-store where a slightly younger (2009) purple cake costs CNY 48. "Gushu" claim and everything :mrgreen:. No idea how it compares to the 2005 cake.

In any case, if shopping single cakes in this price range, it's going to be hard to justify the shipping and agent costs. Bulk orders are another matter.
That was exactly the reason why i asked ^__^ .

I'm under the impression that nowadays "gushu" has become a star-based rating, to get real highest grade gushu it has to be gushu-gushu-gushu-gushu-gushu ... otherwise it's just "gushu" .
aet wrote:
Fri Feb 12, 2021 4:45 am
I know that this question wasn't for me, but feel like to react ;-)..if u don't mind
The more the merrier. I'd say the whole point of "the internet" is - precisely - to join in and share points of view, the more different the better .
Just imagine an extreme situation : the was obtained by vendor for free - 0$ , sold on Ali without any margin - 0$ , free membership for vendor on Ali - 0$ ( which both is nonsense but just for example ) , means that the tea cake gained only 1$ / per year as it's storage value ( that's 6 CNY ) ..u know what I mean ? ;-)
Yes i do, however while i was already aware of marginal portions of tea being "complimentary" ( AKA pseudo-free ) on large purchases i can only imagine there's a limit to it, but this type of low-priced cakes seems to be a constant i can only speculate they come mostly from the usual low-priced cakes + small margins .
So close to reality the original price vendor purchased could be half ( but probably even less than that..I'd estimate 6$ ) . Annual Ali is couple of thousands $, + some advert perks if needed ( or just be visible in first 10 pages in search ) . Assuming due to low price of shipping , the vendor is in SZ or GZ , damn expensive place to live...I lived there 1 year, almost like in Europe.
O__o ... had no idea AE fees were that high, more than aware of Amazon dominatrix policies but was expecting places like AE to be more lenient
We buy Zi Juan from Menghai farmer directly ...the guy has his own plantation. Tea there is cheaper than famous Jingmai. I do posses some knowledge about actual prices of this tea in general.
I can only assume based on my experience , that inside the wrapper is around 2 years GZ stored some Menghai summer harvest purple leaf. Nothing wrong with that you like it and I guess you are still getting good deal on it as you are not buying it in China.
The last line here was the whole point that made us stray into this offtopic :) , even more now for the EU starting july 1st .
Shipping fee only 1.99$ From KM to US via e-pack is around 11$ now ( coz Covid fee added ) , around 9$ without the cov.fee. I know they have cheaper shipping from SZ or GZ , but not 5x less than rest of China. So they basically doing the free shipping concept ( which is not free of course ) in different / smarter way , giving customers feeling they buying 16$ worth tea, instead make it look cheap like 10$ or something....as customer believes there is no other costs involved into the margin of tea if shipping is set separately.
Similar concepts are on flat rate shipping. ( national parcel can be done like that , but international no way ...each country has very different rates )
Hmmm... granted... while i never swallowed the pseudo-free concept ( biased as anybody else with some experience on accounting and aware of the creative branch ) there's plenty people - to my surprise - that was "made to love magic" but unlike Nick Drake ... are still convinced it's there.

However i'd argue there's layers... different audiences, different targets ... and here we're essentially talking about tea drinkers ( smaller group ) , western audience ( even smaller ) ... and then the ones into puerh ( even smaller ) and you can even add some granularity ( people that won't "commit" - as people tend to say nowadays - to a whole cake ) . And then you have particular traits belonging to that kind, a restless bunch with the healthy habit of questioning things and finding new ones.

All that to say that this small group - part of the internet bubble - has moved far away from this old fashioned commercial bait and just see it as a simplified way to display the final amount they'll pay and appreciate not wasting time "cheating" shopping carts ( which nowadays it's still a thing on small shops with low cost websites and plenty holes ) or fitting as much tea as possible for the shipping fee they'll be paying.

Anyway, the whole point I want to say here is, that one has to drink him / her self trough it ...in order to understand the price : quality ratio .
Indeed. The more i read, watch, experiment & learn .... for all the messages, articles, blog posts & videos on the whole net ... for all the published books... it's always back to the most simple principle: forget about the literature, stop wasting time with other people's impressions... invest more of it on building your own, or to keep it short... "you just keep drinking tea, focus on it, keep at it... everything else will come out naturally" .
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aet
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Fri Feb 12, 2021 9:08 pm

just a small addition.
I've looked up again and this purple cake..it is actually Zi Ya , not Zi Juan , I made a mistake. sorry.
What I like about Zi Ya is that it tastes "aged" even 6 months after harvest. That's the also the reason why it is easy used for false age claims , let alone the color of the leaves which makes hard to judge the age by look as well. I was sourcing Xi Meng Zi Ya loose leaf last year and it was like 3-5y old KM stored sheng puerh taste. The whole magic behind that ,is that the tea leaf it self is not as astringent as other regular tea despite being only bush tea " tai di cha" . You can get some purple leaves on trees as well, but not all tree uniformly , just some leaves and in fact those not meant to be picked yet coz not ripe enough.
As I've heard from locals that even the regular Zi Ya from plantations turns back to green but much later than it is regular time for harvest ( March - April ) , from that I assume ( now please not this is only my assumption ! ) that the lack of astringency is the actually the sign of not fully ripe tea leafs. Like with apples, when not ripe - green and sour , when ripe - red and sweet. The problem is, what they told me , when it turns to green sometime at the end of May , the bushes fully opened into the leaves and not many buds then, so can't really pick the ratio 1:2 or 1:3 ( bud:leaf ) , therefore you missing the "right" time for harvest.
The astringency in tea leafs is actually a good thing , not the sign of bad quality or something. That's the also other aspect of old tea trees. Chinese scientists made a study on that and found out that younger bushes ( which makes sense ) have more nutrition than older ones and the astringency is the one of the sign of it. ( do not confuse with dryness caused by bad processing or bad harvest ).

Speak of TB again , for sure there is some tea quality=price , just it is so messy and the sample is the cake + all that hassle trough the agent.
Sometimes I have requests to check up some tea from TB ( if can find shop in KM ) and if there is some space for me to make some CNY along offer with lower price than it's sold on TB, than I do small business . But it's just like a hobby rather than making money on it.
kobold
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Sun Sep 19, 2021 5:25 am

Hi everyone, this is my first post. Slowly working my way through my more than a decade old and half forgotten tea collection. Need help with these two cakes (Yunnang Sourcing).
Image

I lost some of my records for my (mostly puerh) teas, so I think I will need ID help a lot. :-)
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mrmopu
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Sun Sep 19, 2021 8:59 am

kobold wrote:
Sun Sep 19, 2021 5:25 am
Hi everyone, this is my first post. Slowly working my way through my more than a decade old and half forgotten tea collection. Need help with these two cakes (Yunnang Sourcing).
Image

I lost some of my records for my (mostly puerh) teas, so I think I will need ID help a lot. :-)
One looks like the Drunk on Red that YS sells or sold. The other could be one of the Dian Hong series.
kobold
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Sun Sep 19, 2021 2:08 pm

mrmopu wrote:
Sun Sep 19, 2021 8:59 am
kobold wrote:
Sun Sep 19, 2021 5:25 am
Hi everyone, this is my first post. Slowly working my way through my more than a decade old and half forgotten tea collection. Need help with these two cakes (Yunnang Sourcing).
Image

I lost some of my records for my (mostly puerh) teas, so I think I will need ID help a lot. :-)
One looks like the Drunk on Red that YS sells or sold. The other could be one of the Dian Hong series.


Hi mrmopu, thanks much!
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mrmopu
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Mon Sep 20, 2021 7:08 am

kobold wrote:
Sun Sep 19, 2021 2:08 pm
mrmopu wrote:
Sun Sep 19, 2021 8:59 am
kobold wrote:
Sun Sep 19, 2021 5:25 am
Hi everyone, this is my first post. Slowly working my way through my more than a decade old and half forgotten tea collection. Need help with these two cakes (Yunnang Sourcing).
Image

I lost some of my records for my (mostly puerh) teas, so I think I will need ID help a lot. :-)
One looks like the Drunk on Red that YS sells or sold. The other could be one of the Dian Hong series.


Hi mrmopu, thanks much!
Welcome sir. Hope it helps a little.
kobold
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Mon Sep 20, 2021 5:06 pm

Yes, it does, the Drunk on Red was spot on, the other one is a 2011 Jing Gu (scenic valley).

Doing an inventory for the first time, but it is going well.
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