Caffeine effects
I have a caffeine intolerance that seems to be more pronounced when I’m drinking puerhs and oolongs. I like to brew them gong fu style and have been trying to adjust my technique. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated because I really like to drink them. Thanks.
Since this is the fermented tea section I'll speak to puerh. Generally buds and the first leaves (gong ting, 1,2, etc) can have more caffeine. As you go up the leaf grade scale (all the way up to huang pian) the caffeine usually decreases. Spring leaves may have more caffeine that autumn. Fermentation level and age can also affect things, for example older tea is usually mellower. Sheng vs shou will also affect things. Of course less leaves means less caffeine. So when you brew there's the option to use a smaller teapot and less leaves or use less leaves in a larger teapot with extended brewing time. I think there's a few discussions on teaforum discussing caffeine too.
The amount of tea and how much it is steeped will have an effect. The other morning I wanted just a little tea as I was going to a tea tasting later. I brewed 5 grams of shu pu er in a 220ml teapot. I steeped it 2-3 times for several minutes each time. It worked out well. I could have brewed the same amount in a 100ml teapot with more steepings, but I didn't have much time that morning.
Last edited by Stephen on Fri Dec 04, 2020 9:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
some of the same stuff that has come up elsewhere in general about caffeine - if you want to do gong fu get a smaller pot/gaiwan - its harder for pots but you can find sampling sizes down to 40ml or so if you need to. if you know you are going to drink something strong eat something substantial in advance that can slow down caffeine absorption.
other than looking for different leaf types as @Stephen said maybe also try finding teas that have a bit more stem content -less caffeine and more sweetness. I don't drink enough sheng to know, but with cakes where the material is more transparent I wonder if different regions/elevations also tend to have any significant impact on caffeine content. with oolong maybe the ones that fir the profile wouldn't be your ideal flavors, but there you also at least have a lot of options in different varietals/processing that could have a big impact.
remember going fu isn't prescriptive- it doesn't have to mean tons of flash steeps and 5g/100ml, it means doing what gets the best result from the leaves. some teas I really enjoy I find actually perform pretty poorly or very differently under what seems to be western internet/youtube typical gong-fu dogma. try different things- less leaf but very long steeps, less leaf but boiling the tea, maybe drink a bit and let the leaves sit (obviously some teas are ok with this and some will be totally ruined) and pick it back up several hours later. what you might lose in body or mouthfeel might be compensated by some other new flavors that come through using another method, or vice-versa.
I love drinking shu with bigger but very long lazy steeps, I guess what might call being more dim-sum style, and those same teas are too light and lose a lot of their character in short steeps or just taste very different, so you can also find enjoyable new aspects to teas you think you might already know really well this way too. I'm just going to get one or two good infusions that way, but I can stack them up and drink it slowly, and those two brews can be just as good or make me just as happy as an hour long session with another tea.
I don't know how consistent you find the problem to be, but I feel like emotional/outside influences like stress can also have a really big impact with how the body responds to caffeine. if you are stressed or tense or on a bad sleep cycle even just a bit of caffeine can really amplify or create pretty unpleasant feelings, jitteriness, so on. right now are kind of stressful times for almost everyone in some way- maybe its also ok to just put certain teas aside and come back to them when it feels right. I pick my tea based on how it makes me feel just as much as taste, and I know lately I tend to favor my teas that give me almost no qi sensation or are just slightly warming - I don't need something to put me on high alert when the rest of the world is doing that for me whether I want it to or not.
other than looking for different leaf types as @Stephen said maybe also try finding teas that have a bit more stem content -less caffeine and more sweetness. I don't drink enough sheng to know, but with cakes where the material is more transparent I wonder if different regions/elevations also tend to have any significant impact on caffeine content. with oolong maybe the ones that fir the profile wouldn't be your ideal flavors, but there you also at least have a lot of options in different varietals/processing that could have a big impact.
remember going fu isn't prescriptive- it doesn't have to mean tons of flash steeps and 5g/100ml, it means doing what gets the best result from the leaves. some teas I really enjoy I find actually perform pretty poorly or very differently under what seems to be western internet/youtube typical gong-fu dogma. try different things- less leaf but very long steeps, less leaf but boiling the tea, maybe drink a bit and let the leaves sit (obviously some teas are ok with this and some will be totally ruined) and pick it back up several hours later. what you might lose in body or mouthfeel might be compensated by some other new flavors that come through using another method, or vice-versa.
I love drinking shu with bigger but very long lazy steeps, I guess what might call being more dim-sum style, and those same teas are too light and lose a lot of their character in short steeps or just taste very different, so you can also find enjoyable new aspects to teas you think you might already know really well this way too. I'm just going to get one or two good infusions that way, but I can stack them up and drink it slowly, and those two brews can be just as good or make me just as happy as an hour long session with another tea.
I don't know how consistent you find the problem to be, but I feel like emotional/outside influences like stress can also have a really big impact with how the body responds to caffeine. if you are stressed or tense or on a bad sleep cycle even just a bit of caffeine can really amplify or create pretty unpleasant feelings, jitteriness, so on. right now are kind of stressful times for almost everyone in some way- maybe its also ok to just put certain teas aside and come back to them when it feels right. I pick my tea based on how it makes me feel just as much as taste, and I know lately I tend to favor my teas that give me almost no qi sensation or are just slightly warming - I don't need something to put me on high alert when the rest of the world is doing that for me whether I want it to or not.
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TeaTotaling
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Caffeine possibly degrades with time. Therefore, old tea might contain less caffeine.Webley wrote: ↑Fri Dec 04, 2020 6:17 pmI have a caffeine intolerance that seems to be more pronounced when I’m drinking puerhs and oolongs. I like to brew them gong fu style and have been trying to adjust my technique. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated because I really like to drink them. Thanks.
I stay high functioning as a result of a healthy lifestyle. I am able to detect subtle changes in my physiology. I know how caffeine affects me. I almost always drink old tea in the evening, > 10 years, and I experience more of a calming state of mind. Younger tea is more stimulating to me.
Food for thought, and experimentation.
Let the good times roll, and the tea flow
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polezaivsani
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Here is a good summary [1] regarding caffeine levels in different teas and some facts about the impact of brewing techniques. Bottom line - buds and first leaves in the spring have much more of it, where as summer huang pian would have less. Production technique seem to have little impact on caffeine levels, though i glimpsed over one paper [2] that says the caffeine can be degraded by bacteria and fungi during post fermentation (they examine shu production technique in the paper, as a conjecture - might also pertain to natural ageing).
1: https://chadao.blogspot.com/2008/02/caf ... ality.html
2: Zhou, B., Ma, C., Wang, H., & Xia, T. (2018). Biodegradation of caffeine by whole cells of tea-derived fungi Aspergillus sydowii, Aspergillus niger and optimization for caffeine degradation. BMC Microbiology, 18(1). doi:10.1186/s12866-018-1194-8
1: https://chadao.blogspot.com/2008/02/caf ... ality.html
2: Zhou, B., Ma, C., Wang, H., & Xia, T. (2018). Biodegradation of caffeine by whole cells of tea-derived fungi Aspergillus sydowii, Aspergillus niger and optimization for caffeine degradation. BMC Microbiology, 18(1). doi:10.1186/s12866-018-1194-8
i think the main thing you can do is lower the dose and/or drink more slowly.
7g enjoyed in a half hour --> 4g savored over an hour
also, drink less of teas that make you feel worse.
7g enjoyed in a half hour --> 4g savored over an hour
also, drink less of teas that make you feel worse.
I feel the same. Perhaps it's the leaf itself or byproducts of fermentation. When I brew pu er for friends who normally drink coffee or other teas there is usually a surprised reaction to the effects of the pu.
Using less leaves is the best way to reduce coffein.Webley wrote: ↑Fri Dec 04, 2020 6:17 pmI have a caffeine intolerance that seems to be more pronounced when I’m drinking puerhs and oolongs. I like to brew them gong fu style and have been trying to adjust my technique. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated because I really like to drink them. Thanks.