Due to some ongoing stomach issues (relatively minor - nothing serious!) it was recommended by my medical practitioner that I try a low FODMAPS eating plan as I may have SIBO. A year ago I have a food sensitivity (blood test for inflammation) test and was avoiding certain foods but I'm still having some issues. If you look up 'low FODMAPS' or SIBO, you can get an idea. I won't try to show all that information here as it's easy to find on the internet.
The basic low FODMAPS eating plan I have lists green tea as good, black tea as optional and many herbal teas as good. I tried to research whether pu'erh is good or not and didn't find very much. So I was wondering if anyone here has more information!
Thanks
FODMAPS / SIBO and Pu'Erh
I doubt you will find anything like that, this seems to be a new thing.
The focus seems to be on low-carb, so tea should be fine as it is no-carb when drunk plain. For bowel trouble, the usual advice is to avoid tannic teas or to neutralize the tannins; pu'er-wise, this would likely mean no raw pu'er, or maybe sufficiently old Hong Kong-style pu'er.
I imagine that pu'er might be considered a "probiotic" drink, though. I don't know if that would be an issue here, or really even if this is true. You would likely know best in regards to this.
My guess would be that the teas that would be most compatible would be fully-fermented black teas (Chinese-type blacks made from Sinensis rather than Assamica), maybe British style black teas with milk (the milk seems to cancel out any digestive distress, assuming milk itself does not cause it) but maybe no sugar, or green teas that have been specifically bred, grown, and processed for mildness, which is hard to gauge if you are just buying at random.
The focus seems to be on low-carb, so tea should be fine as it is no-carb when drunk plain. For bowel trouble, the usual advice is to avoid tannic teas or to neutralize the tannins; pu'er-wise, this would likely mean no raw pu'er, or maybe sufficiently old Hong Kong-style pu'er.
I imagine that pu'er might be considered a "probiotic" drink, though. I don't know if that would be an issue here, or really even if this is true. You would likely know best in regards to this.
My guess would be that the teas that would be most compatible would be fully-fermented black teas (Chinese-type blacks made from Sinensis rather than Assamica), maybe British style black teas with milk (the milk seems to cancel out any digestive distress, assuming milk itself does not cause it) but maybe no sugar, or green teas that have been specifically bred, grown, and processed for mildness, which is hard to gauge if you are just buying at random.
Have you tried an elimination diet? Several friends follow guidelines and are fans of the book ‘Gut and Psychology Syndrome’ by Dr Natasha Campbell-McBride MD. Healed their gut issues following books recommendations.
Also a few similar topics;
What's the best tea for a sensitive stomach?
Does diet influence what tea you drink?
Also a few similar topics;
What's the best tea for a sensitive stomach?
Does diet influence what tea you drink?
if you have some stomach issues , the sheng puerh is definitely not your choice of the drink. Shu puerh or very old wet stored sheng ( which is sort of natural shu as well ) . I'm surprised that green tea is listed as recommended, although fixation there is closed, not like sheng .
With stomach issues I'd avoid anything green (enzymes) , same as green vegetables. I had some issues due to drinking too much young shengs ( work , can't avoid that ) , so I had to stop to eat fruits and raw veg. for half year. Doctor recommended to eat only well cooked , fermented products...simply avoid raw stuff , especially "green" one.
The whole point is to avoid high acidity in stomach which causes probably the most of issues there and after in whole digestion system in guts.
But your problem might be different from what I had before, so take it just as an opinion.
My wife makes a cider ( non alcoholic ) by fermenting fruits in special air tight bucket with air out valve during the actual fermentation. It had sorted lots of my issues , especially heartburn and higher acidity in stomach when drinking young shengs for testing. If you are interested in more details, let me know.
With stomach issues I'd avoid anything green (enzymes) , same as green vegetables. I had some issues due to drinking too much young shengs ( work , can't avoid that ) , so I had to stop to eat fruits and raw veg. for half year. Doctor recommended to eat only well cooked , fermented products...simply avoid raw stuff , especially "green" one.
The whole point is to avoid high acidity in stomach which causes probably the most of issues there and after in whole digestion system in guts.
But your problem might be different from what I had before, so take it just as an opinion.
My wife makes a cider ( non alcoholic ) by fermenting fruits in special air tight bucket with air out valve during the actual fermentation. It had sorted lots of my issues , especially heartburn and higher acidity in stomach when drinking young shengs for testing. If you are interested in more details, let me know.
I am always mystified why people drink young sheng – unless they need to sample and evaluate aging potential as a professional like yourself.
I rarely react to teas, but young sheng gives me an immediate and very, very unpleasant body reaction. Only once did I try a fresh Sheng that did not have this, but that one was a very highly priced tea. Am I missing something and completely off the mark to think that young sheng is not meant to be drunk young?
My theory is that people drink it because it is more affordable than the aged ones and/or due to lack of access to better leaves. ???
1) Yes, the one of the factor is the lower price and in western culture is the tea is not valued as wine , whisky and such. So not many people are willing to invest some bigger money into "only" 357g tea ( which lasts longer than bottle of wine anyway
..but westerners don't see it that way ) 2) Another factor is the taste. Some people just like biter and astringent tea ( I think specially smokers ) because it gives them feeling of drinking something else than water ( since their taste buds are not that sensitive ). I've seen some foreigner video drinking young sheng 6am on empty stomach...that would be my final tea I guess
I have a request from one Russian client for few kg of young sheng with extra Ba Qi , what he asked for was extra bitter and astringent. He starts his morning with 15g of young sheng in 700ml bottle (grandpa style brewing ) , 100ml vodka and smoked pork fat for balance that all out ;-D
3) I remember my early beginnings , when we were in Mengku with my wife ( she was doing the marketing strategy plan that year for Mengku Rongshi , so we were invited to their factory for a week or so ) and except of enjoying their tea , I also tried some other factories around. There was a one who just made a fresh tea and we were testing it with other buyers around . They all (incl. my wife ) pulled away after few cups , but I kept going and even asked to steep it harder. There was just not enough astringency for me
I loved when tongue went "twisted sideways and screaming with pain" ;-D not realizing that same massacre heading to my stomach where the bitter liquid continues it's journey. In general I was brewing tea strong as well , even my friends told me though.
Then one day I got hands on some fat tree material and couldn't believe that I was drinking all that astringent water and munched on it. Slowly started to understand the point of the aging when drinking more old tea not only from KM ( where ages very slow ) , but HK, GZ, TW , MAL , and recently even Thailand. I also learned to distinguish different types of bitterness and astringency , as some good gushu can taste like that when young and it is hard for beginners to distinguish it from small arbors or bush for it's aggressive taste
4) I have noticed that many foreigners drink young shengs from big TF because it's cool think to do in their "nuevo puerh drinkers club" , which you hardly see happening in China.
Some of my friends on tea market like young sheng ( loose leaf ) although it's from the young trees ( as they think / believe they drink some gushu
and enjoying the bitterness with astringency because they grew up in such a flavor spectrum ( green tea drinkers , eating ku gua..bitter cucumber ). In Yiwu I was eating at farmers place some bamboo shoots / roots with chilly powder , I was sweating from bitterness not from spicy flavor , he was munching on it. So I can confirm that some Yunnan people have different stomach , yet my wife can't drink it much unless some real Gushu stuff.Well , I believe this should be posted under different topic
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=1285Anyway, I'm off to market for search 2020 bitter astringent sheng with lots of Qi though;-D
Last edited by Victoria on Tue Jul 21, 2020 1:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Mod edit: cleaned up quote
Reason: Mod edit: cleaned up quote
@aet Indeed, thanks for the post!
I think you're right on the mark on most points, but I'm not 100% sure about the lower price part. Of course it is true for some people, but there's also those that buy very expensive young sheng cakes with the intention of drinking it in the short or medium long term. Why someone would buy a 2020 cake for $300+ with the intention of consuming it now, when you can have something like Wistaria's 2003 Zipin for less than that, is a bit of a mystery to me. But there seems to be a strong botique trend (particularly in the west as you noted), where vendors have been successful in marketing the young tea's "terroir" (much like wine). The trees are "freshly picked" from "large"/"old"/"wild" (sometimes all three) trees, there's no storage "altering" of the "raw taste", "all of the intensity is preserved" etc. For vendors this is great, there's no need to worry too much about the quality of your storage (or the cost long-term storage entails). (Actually, a similar thing has been happening with single malt whiskies (mostly due to the increased demand) - "NAS" (no age statement) malts, which typically means very young, have become more and more common in the last ten years. Japanese single malts are the extreme case here, but for Scottish as well this is happening at rapid speed.)
Just from a pure taste and "body feel" perspective, I can certainly see why young puer appeals to some people. Like you say, the bitterness and astringency certainly has (or rather can have) its charms. And the jitteriness it can produce is something some people like (e.g. the whole "teadrunk" aspect some people focus on). Some people seems to be willing to accept uncomfortable side-effects to have the "young sheng experience".
Another reason I think young sheng appeals to many westerners is that home storage is usually a bit of a hassle here, so if you can enjoy young sheng here and now there's no need to worry about those cakes you bought a year ago deteriorating from your home's low temperatures and humidity.
Like many others on here, I rarely drink young puer (usually only if I receive a sample or am considering whether or not to buy a cake for storage), but back in 2013-14 I drank much more of it. It seems to me like the negative effects it has on my stomach actually accumulates over time. If I have not had a young sheng in a long time, I can have a session with few bad effects (provided I am drinking it after a meal). But if I've had it several days in a row it can really give me some quite bad stomach cramps. The "jitteriness" novelty factor has also worn off, and I have never ever found a young sheng that provides the same kind of calming energy that some aged ones can.
Also, maybe @Victoria or someone else can move these posts to another thread, feel kinda bad to hijack this one
I think you're right on the mark on most points, but I'm not 100% sure about the lower price part. Of course it is true for some people, but there's also those that buy very expensive young sheng cakes with the intention of drinking it in the short or medium long term. Why someone would buy a 2020 cake for $300+ with the intention of consuming it now, when you can have something like Wistaria's 2003 Zipin for less than that, is a bit of a mystery to me. But there seems to be a strong botique trend (particularly in the west as you noted), where vendors have been successful in marketing the young tea's "terroir" (much like wine). The trees are "freshly picked" from "large"/"old"/"wild" (sometimes all three) trees, there's no storage "altering" of the "raw taste", "all of the intensity is preserved" etc. For vendors this is great, there's no need to worry too much about the quality of your storage (or the cost long-term storage entails). (Actually, a similar thing has been happening with single malt whiskies (mostly due to the increased demand) - "NAS" (no age statement) malts, which typically means very young, have become more and more common in the last ten years. Japanese single malts are the extreme case here, but for Scottish as well this is happening at rapid speed.)
Just from a pure taste and "body feel" perspective, I can certainly see why young puer appeals to some people. Like you say, the bitterness and astringency certainly has (or rather can have) its charms. And the jitteriness it can produce is something some people like (e.g. the whole "teadrunk" aspect some people focus on). Some people seems to be willing to accept uncomfortable side-effects to have the "young sheng experience".
Another reason I think young sheng appeals to many westerners is that home storage is usually a bit of a hassle here, so if you can enjoy young sheng here and now there's no need to worry about those cakes you bought a year ago deteriorating from your home's low temperatures and humidity.
Like many others on here, I rarely drink young puer (usually only if I receive a sample or am considering whether or not to buy a cake for storage), but back in 2013-14 I drank much more of it. It seems to me like the negative effects it has on my stomach actually accumulates over time. If I have not had a young sheng in a long time, I can have a session with few bad effects (provided I am drinking it after a meal). But if I've had it several days in a row it can really give me some quite bad stomach cramps. The "jitteriness" novelty factor has also worn off, and I have never ever found a young sheng that provides the same kind of calming energy that some aged ones can.
Also, maybe @Victoria or someone else can move these posts to another thread, feel kinda bad to hijack this one
One reason I find I really like liu bao is that, like shu, younger liu bao is much more forgiving on the stomach then sheng and can taste a lot older and/or smooth. also for the price point I think you can get much nicer liu bao than pu-erh and the general flavor is more appealing to me, so if it isn't your thing then I guess that doesn't count for much. even a very young and highly fermented/strong liu bao I find doesn't come close to the effects of sheng or even some shu on my stomach. this could also be in part due to the quantity I drink it in too- while older and higher grade teas will go for many more brews and are best with short steeps, I find a lot of liu bao brews well like one might a Japanese green, with a little less than 5g/100ml and doing around 3 long steeps giving up the best of the leaves.
As for us westerners who seem to love chugging sheng almost right off the tree, I do think its a number of factors- price/availability being a big one as others have said. most people who are new or newer to tea want to taste things and learn and can't afford to only drink 10-30+ year old tea and the number of western vendors offering that is significantly lower anyway. also most people don't want to buy into a collection only to sit on it for decades without drinking any of it. I think this is also a flavor profile thing. again the beer analogy, but many people who are into craft beer, I find especially early on, get very into drinking IPAs, particularly very acidic ones. I think in part its because its an exciting new flavor profile, but also theres the "how far does this go?" aspect with imperial double IPAs where you almost have you chew your beer and your whole mouth feels coated (and yes, it also can wreak havoc on the stomach). I think after a while people often get sick of this and after exploring lots of "extreme" beers I find a lot of people settle into looking for things which are a bit more balanced. I imagine it can be very similar for spirits, where people want the most smokey full cask scotch just to see how far things can go before later favoring things which are more subtle and balanced. Also if you come to tea from coffee, especially the type of coffee I remember being really popular around 10 years ago, having some bitterness/acidity was also a big thing. I also find coffee makes me jittery as hell (I hate it), so maybe people are just used to that or even want/expect it from caffeinated drinks?
As for cha qi, I think again its a new/sensation thing for a lot of people- this idea that something that doesn't have alcohol can make you feel kinda weird/woozy/high. Personally I don't find strong cha qi that appealing most of the time, rather just a slight mellow/relaxation. As far as I'm concerned if you want to be knocked for a loop leave tea out of it, theres plenty of weed strains out there you can sample while your sheng ages.
As for us westerners who seem to love chugging sheng almost right off the tree, I do think its a number of factors- price/availability being a big one as others have said. most people who are new or newer to tea want to taste things and learn and can't afford to only drink 10-30+ year old tea and the number of western vendors offering that is significantly lower anyway. also most people don't want to buy into a collection only to sit on it for decades without drinking any of it. I think this is also a flavor profile thing. again the beer analogy, but many people who are into craft beer, I find especially early on, get very into drinking IPAs, particularly very acidic ones. I think in part its because its an exciting new flavor profile, but also theres the "how far does this go?" aspect with imperial double IPAs where you almost have you chew your beer and your whole mouth feels coated (and yes, it also can wreak havoc on the stomach). I think after a while people often get sick of this and after exploring lots of "extreme" beers I find a lot of people settle into looking for things which are a bit more balanced. I imagine it can be very similar for spirits, where people want the most smokey full cask scotch just to see how far things can go before later favoring things which are more subtle and balanced. Also if you come to tea from coffee, especially the type of coffee I remember being really popular around 10 years ago, having some bitterness/acidity was also a big thing. I also find coffee makes me jittery as hell (I hate it), so maybe people are just used to that or even want/expect it from caffeinated drinks?
As for cha qi, I think again its a new/sensation thing for a lot of people- this idea that something that doesn't have alcohol can make you feel kinda weird/woozy/high. Personally I don't find strong cha qi that appealing most of the time, rather just a slight mellow/relaxation. As far as I'm concerned if you want to be knocked for a loop leave tea out of it, theres plenty of weed strains out there you can sample while your sheng ages.
I would avoid any “real” tea for a while if you’re having stomach issues, since it’s pretty stimulating for the nervous system in comparison to other herbs. Unaged sheng is probably the most stimulating of all teas so I would avoid.
PS: Almost any benefit from fermented foods gets lost if they’re heated, so I don’t see why that also wouldn’t apply to puer tea.
PS: Almost any benefit from fermented foods gets lost if they’re heated, so I don’t see why that also wouldn’t apply to puer tea.
Thanks everyone for the posts.
Although I mentioned stomach issues, and upon reading through the replies and the focus on 'stomach, I realize I should have phrased my note differently. I actually don't have stomach issues (no pain, no reflux, no wierd feelings at all, in particular when consuming tea...including young sheng, "knocking on wood".
What I'm really after is any information about Pu'Erh and FODMAPS. This is because of possibly having SIBO that is related to bacteria in foods and bowel movements
(see - didn't want to go there! haha). So for now I'm on a low FODMAPS eating plan and I'm just looking to confirm whether anyone has knowledge of Pu'Erh and FODMAPS. But thanks so much!
Although I mentioned stomach issues, and upon reading through the replies and the focus on 'stomach, I realize I should have phrased my note differently. I actually don't have stomach issues (no pain, no reflux, no wierd feelings at all, in particular when consuming tea...including young sheng, "knocking on wood
". What I'm really after is any information about Pu'Erh and FODMAPS. This is because of possibly having SIBO that is related to bacteria in foods and bowel movements
(see - didn't want to go there! haha). So for now I'm on a low FODMAPS eating plan and I'm just looking to confirm whether anyone has knowledge of Pu'Erh and FODMAPS. But thanks so much!-
TeaTotaling
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Keep in mind tea is high in Oxalic Acid, Catechins, and Tannins which can potentially complicate SIBO. Consuming a given tea on an empty stomach would be a sure-fire way to identify problematic culprits.Noonie wrote: ↑Tue Jul 21, 2020 11:38 amThanks everyone for the posts.
Although I mentioned stomach issues, and upon reading through the replies and the focus on 'stomach, I realize I should have phrased my note differently. I actually don't have stomach issues (no pain, no reflux, no wierd feelings at all, in particular when consuming tea...including young sheng, "knocking on wood
What I'm really after is any information about Pu'Erh and FODMAPS. This is because of possibly having SIBO that is related to bacteria in foods and bowel movements
Recalling from memory information I have researched over the years, younger and greener teas could be potentially higher in oxalates. Whereas aged and post-fermented teas could be potentially lower in oxalates.
Younger and greener teas might also offer the most health benefits, being higher in Catechins and Tannins. These compounds tend to deteriorate with age and oxidation. Be mindful Catechins and Tannins tend to have a stronger affect on digestion as well.
Trial and error. Listen to your body.
