Not home storage, but rather aging similar to what people expect coming out of pu'er warehouses.
It occurs to me that the conditions that make pu'er happiest aren't really healthy living conditions; anyone who has lived in a moldy apartment has known how unpleasant it can be, or who has soldiered through an unusually humid summer day without any air conditioning.
Someone living in the Southern U.S. could probably build a pu'er shed outside that would work for aging, as the weather is actually the sort that a person could grow tea in if it weren't cost-prohibitive, but I have trouble understanding how if someone buys a tong of tea and stores it in their closet it will get meaningfully better.
So does that mean that if you are buying in bulk but don't live somewhere hot and humid, it is mostly just because you are happy with the tea as it is now and are trying to avoid price increases? Or am I misunderstanding how this process works?
I know that some of the most famous pu'er vintages spent quite a few years essentially home-stored, as they were found after restaurants that had bought them to use closed down after the owners died, but I don't really know if this is that these were just impressive vintages that didn't fade with age, or if they actually improved in that time but just at a very slow rate, or something else...
Any advice?
Is home aging a myth if you don't live somewhere hot and humid?
Many people build/use pumidors to enable aging. You can search for pumidor here on teaforum. Also there is a good article on teadb
It will still age, it just takes a lot longer...
For example Kavalan whisky in Taiwan won a few gold medals in the past few years, mainly due to that the climate allowed 5y old whisky to gather a depth of taste that would require a lot longer to achieve in Scotland.
For example Kavalan whisky in Taiwan won a few gold medals in the past few years, mainly due to that the climate allowed 5y old whisky to gather a depth of taste that would require a lot longer to achieve in Scotland.
idtdoes age longer and differently. If conditions are not too dry, it will keep longer it's original flavors as it had in young version, just the sweet fruity flowery..etc. taste with wood ( if drier conditions ) notes, and astringency should slowly fade away.
Faster ( more humid and hot ) you age , than faster you get sweeter tea , faster loosing astringency but also faster loosing it's original flavor .... it's heading more likely towards to the "shu" taste like estate.
Please note that it's just a very rough explanation. Of course depends on many factors, so hope I'm not going to get hammered by orthodox puerhists here ;-D
And yes, your thoughts are heading the right direction. Price , control of own storage / aging and availability.
Some people just a hobby, collection ( if some factory or unique pieces ) .
You can try pumidors, but I'd suggest to use some less expensive cakes to practice
Faster ( more humid and hot ) you age , than faster you get sweeter tea , faster loosing astringency but also faster loosing it's original flavor .... it's heading more likely towards to the "shu" taste like estate.
Please note that it's just a very rough explanation. Of course depends on many factors, so hope I'm not going to get hammered by orthodox puerhists here ;-D
And yes, your thoughts are heading the right direction. Price , control of own storage / aging and availability.
Some people just a hobby, collection ( if some factory or unique pieces ) .
You can try pumidors, but I'd suggest to use some less expensive cakes to practice
@mbanu
You will find a lot of information online that will lead you in various directions, I think the best way is to sample the result/end product. The owner of The Chinese Tea Shop has been aging tea in Hong Kong and Vancouver. I remembered he did a sampling of 2018 gui feng zhai tea comparison. You can try to reach out to him to see if he would sell you a sample of each. This tea is for sale on his website but I am not sure the aging location
You will find a lot of information online that will lead you in various directions, I think the best way is to sample the result/end product. The owner of The Chinese Tea Shop has been aging tea in Hong Kong and Vancouver. I remembered he did a sampling of 2018 gui feng zhai tea comparison. You can try to reach out to him to see if he would sell you a sample of each. This tea is for sale on his website but I am not sure the aging location
It is hot and humid where I live, in Bangkok, so I can't really talk through personal experience with adjusting aging conditions. It does seem like some conventional basics haven't been filled in yet in this discussion.
The main concern for aging sheng seems to be to not let it get too dry; that's it. Not below 50% relative humidity works, to put a rough range to that.
The problem people seem to have in temperate climates, places like the US, is that when outside air gets cold then indoor heating adds heat to the air but not humidity. For the most part the outdoor relative humidity isn't dropping that much, but when you heat that same air it can hold a lot more moisture, which just isn't there, and it feels a lot drier. It will feel dry to fungus and bacteria too, the micro-fauna (bacteria and fungus) that causes sheng to ferment.
Those could seemingly also go more dormant related to experiencing low temperature. Moisture seems more an issue though; mold can grow just fine in a cool environment if it's wet enough. Limited input from hot storage test conditions seems to indicate that keeping humidity in a relatively high (but normal) range, and also setting temperature higher, might speed fermentation up.
All this seems to add up to sheng aging well in conditions people would prefer to live in, between 50 and 70% RH, between a cool version of room temperature and on the warm side (maybe 60 F to 80 F, 17 to 27 C).
The conventional fix for pu'er enthusiasts seems to be to use Boveda or other brand salt packs to prevent cakes drying, rather than adjusting indoor or zone environment; nothing too complicated.
If any of this seems off I'd like to hear which part.
The main concern for aging sheng seems to be to not let it get too dry; that's it. Not below 50% relative humidity works, to put a rough range to that.
The problem people seem to have in temperate climates, places like the US, is that when outside air gets cold then indoor heating adds heat to the air but not humidity. For the most part the outdoor relative humidity isn't dropping that much, but when you heat that same air it can hold a lot more moisture, which just isn't there, and it feels a lot drier. It will feel dry to fungus and bacteria too, the micro-fauna (bacteria and fungus) that causes sheng to ferment.
Those could seemingly also go more dormant related to experiencing low temperature. Moisture seems more an issue though; mold can grow just fine in a cool environment if it's wet enough. Limited input from hot storage test conditions seems to indicate that keeping humidity in a relatively high (but normal) range, and also setting temperature higher, might speed fermentation up.
All this seems to add up to sheng aging well in conditions people would prefer to live in, between 50 and 70% RH, between a cool version of room temperature and on the warm side (maybe 60 F to 80 F, 17 to 27 C).
The conventional fix for pu'er enthusiasts seems to be to use Boveda or other brand salt packs to prevent cakes drying, rather than adjusting indoor or zone environment; nothing too complicated.
If any of this seems off I'd like to hear which part.
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Teas We Like
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My setup for personal storage in the northern US uses mylar bags with boveda packs for humidity control, and large coolers (for thermal insulation) with heating provided by seedling mats controlled by a thermostat. I suggest you take a look at Marco's storage experiments for more information: https://mgualt.com/tealog/tag/experiment/
(our store's teas ship from Taiwan and have been mostly stored in Taiwan or Malaysia so it's a different story)
(our store's teas ship from Taiwan and have been mostly stored in Taiwan or Malaysia so it's a different story)
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swordofmytriumph
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My system is pretty ghetto lol. I use 69% Boveda packs and plastic bags. I have two bags, one for my sheng and one for my white tea cakes. I just stuff two boveda packs in each bag, then roll the bag’s opening up and clip it with a chip clip. It isn’t a hundred percent airtight so it does let some air in, but it keeps the humidity in for the most part. And it gets new air around once or twice a week when I open it to get tea out. It actually works pretty well. I wouldn’t say it is ideal for aging necessarily, but my tea tastes better when I care for it this way. I prefer my sheng young, too, so I’m not worried about aging long term. My upper limits are around 10 years. At most.
@Teas We Like @swordofmytriumph How big (in grams) are this Boveda packs? Are 8g enough? I am storing my sheng cakes in thick aluminium foil storing pu erh bags but recent experience with one of my cakes made me thinking if I should add some source of humidity in those bags.
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That depends on the amount of tea and the volume of the container. i usually include wireless temperature and humidity sensors in the mylar bags, so I can monitor the conditions inside the bag without having to open it (the sensors are reasonably affordable).lUKAV28 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 19, 2020 9:46 amTeas We Like swordofmytriumph How big (in grams) are this Boveda packs? Are 8g enough? I am storing my sheng cakes in thick aluminium foil storing pu erh bags but recent experience with one of my cakes made me thinking if I should add some source of humidity in those bags.
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swordofmytriumph
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The ones I buy are 60g and they come in a 4-pack. Since you gotta use ‘em when you open them, I put two in my puerh bag and two in my pressed white tea bag. Honestly I’m not super scientific about it, but from what I understand more is better because they will last longer, but I can’t remember where I read that.lUKAV28 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 19, 2020 9:46 amTeas We Like swordofmytriumph How big (in grams) are this Boveda packs? Are 8g enough? I am storing my sheng cakes in thick aluminium foil storing pu erh bags but recent experience with one of my cakes made me thinking if I should add some source of humidity in those bags.
Also, if your container or bag is see through, you can just get a regular hygrometer they’re super cheap. Just put it next to the edge of the bag or box and you’re set.
@Teas We Like @swordofmytriumph thank you both. Yeah in the end I just wanna keep my cakes fresh while they last. Not really in the aging game as I don’t have the right conditions nor space for proper aging.
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swordofmytriumph
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It really goes without saying, but younger sheng cakes tend to transition over the first three years or so within a range that would still be considered young. The cakes changing normally over that time is often positive, not drying out to remain the same, or picking up limited negative range scope due to that drying process.
It depends on the sheng. One favorite version seemed like it was as good as it was ever going to be when I first tried it, very mild related to astringency or bitterness, sweet, intense in flavor, and fruity. Sure enough a year later it wasn't ruined by the limited transition but not as good.
It's probably more common for a year or two of transition to be positive, for a trade off in softening aspects and adding depth to be more of an improvement than losing some of the higher notes is negative.
But then what do I know. I just commented on a tea meme elsewhere that I'm only at the stage where I can tell sheng from shu, and that's not completely just a joke. Sorting out the patterns takes time, and if my wife has her way I'll never have the critical mass of sheng sitting around to do the exploration justice.
It depends on the sheng. One favorite version seemed like it was as good as it was ever going to be when I first tried it, very mild related to astringency or bitterness, sweet, intense in flavor, and fruity. Sure enough a year later it wasn't ruined by the limited transition but not as good.
It's probably more common for a year or two of transition to be positive, for a trade off in softening aspects and adding depth to be more of an improvement than losing some of the higher notes is negative.
But then what do I know. I just commented on a tea meme elsewhere that I'm only at the stage where I can tell sheng from shu, and that's not completely just a joke. Sorting out the patterns takes time, and if my wife has her way I'll never have the critical mass of sheng sitting around to do the exploration justice.