What Pu'er Are You Drinking

Puerh and other heicha
faj
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Fri Jun 11, 2021 4:42 pm

.m. wrote:
Fri Jun 11, 2021 4:12 pm
In my opinion it should qualify as puerh, no matter what the chinese goverment says. If one considers puerh as a separate category of tea, and most people do, then tea that is processed the same way, comes from the "same" trees growing in the same wider geographical area and in the same ecosystem, must fall into the same category. This is the analogy with Champagne or Cognac, neither of which is a category of alcoholic drinks (one is a sparkling wine, other is a brandy), but a product from a specific geographical denomination.
Champagne is a region in France, and you are OK will people claiming that only sparkling wine from that region should be called Champagne. Pu'er is a Chinese city in Yunnan, but you are not OK with people claiming that only teas from that traditional region should be called Pu'er. Why is your opinion different in these two cases?
.m.
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Fri Jun 11, 2021 5:05 pm

faj wrote:
Fri Jun 11, 2021 4:42 pm
Champagne is a region in France, and you are OK will people claiming that only sparkling wine from that region should be called Champagne. Pu'er is a Chinese city in Yunnan, but you are not OK with people claiming that only teas from that traditional region should be called Pu'er. Why is your opinion different in these two cases?
I'm OK with that. I just think the traditional region is much bigger and has nothing to do with national states and their borders (which are much much younger than the history of tea cultivation and processing in the area), but with the general geographical/ecological habitat. If China decided to invade northern Myanmar, or Vietnam, and adjoin it to the Yunnan province, would the tea from there suddenly become puerh overnight? And if the army retreated would it change back into "not puerh" category? :)
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LeoFox
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Fri Jun 11, 2021 5:27 pm

Some still consider Alsatian wine to be german
Andrew S
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Fri Jun 11, 2021 7:13 pm

I don't have any issue with Vietnamese tea being labelled as pu er, so long as it's clear that it comes from Vietnam (or at least clear that it's "border tea" that doesn't come from Yunnan).

I'm not sure that Champagne offers a precise analogy: as I understand it, pu er tea was associated with the city of Pu Er because of trade rather than because of where it was grown. I don't think that anyone would suggest that tea grown in Xishuangbanna can't be called pu er. Perhaps a better analogy might be how Stilton cheese was associated with the town of Stilton due to trade, but cannot legally be called Stilton if it is made in the town of Stilton. Or how bourbon describes both the method of making a certain style of whiskey and the location where it is made, but without limiting the location to Bourbon County.

Besides, historically, lots of pu er came from bordering countries. I'm not sure that anyone would have a problem with referring to Hong Tai Chang or post-1960s Guangdong bing as pu er teas, so long as they're not being sold as if they were from Yunnan.

@Lucifigus: it looks and sounds like your tea might be more oxidised than most young pu er; do the wet leaves look dark green or even a bit red, rather than the typical light green that you get in young pu er?

@LeoFox: I think calling Alsatian wine "German" might be the wine equivalent of calling Taiwanese tea "Chinese", but perhaps that's just me...

Andrew
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LeoFox
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Fri Jun 11, 2021 8:26 pm

Some wu liang shan shou to end a dreary, rainy day.
I like how some shou can combine a petrichor cooling quality with a warm, salted buttery savoriness as steeps progress.
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debunix
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Sat Jun 12, 2021 2:31 am

Time to break out—really, break off—some of that Wuliang cake….
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Lucifigus
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Sat Jun 12, 2021 10:53 am

Andrew S wrote:
Fri Jun 11, 2021 7:13 pm
Lucifigus: it looks and sounds like your tea might be more oxidised than most young pu er; do the wet leaves look dark green or even a bit red, rather than the typical light green that you get in young pu er?

Andrew
Perhaps. Here is a colour comparison of the leaves of four “young sheng” style teas in my cupboard.
Clockwise from the top:
• 2019 “Forest Genie” from Hatvala – harvested in Y Ti, Lao Cai Province in Vietnam
• 2017 “Big Snow Mtn.” from TeaVivre – harvested in Fengqing, Lincang, Yunnan province in China
• 2019 “Fisherman’s Breakfast” from Wilderleaf Tea – harvested in Kokang region, Shan State in Myanmar
• 2019 “Jingmai” from Red Blossom Tea – harvested in southern Yunnan Province in China

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Bok
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Sun Jun 13, 2021 9:07 am

Another Mangzhi evening, this time in a reduction fired Chaozhou pot. Works pretty well in this pot!
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LeoFox
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Sat Jun 19, 2021 5:17 pm

Feeling brave so had this young sheng from white2tea: 2020 biscuits
https://white2tea.com/collections/2012- ... 0-biscuits

Brewed 4g/110 mL in HQSN pot.

20s rinse and then flash rinses

Felt doped up immediately and things got hazy.

Very fruity tea - grape, melon, ripe strawberries.

Bitterness was not too bad..thanks to the hqsn

Astringency was bad. Throat prickles were aggressive and after a delay, stomach definitely felt it. Glad I had a big meal earlier.
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Andrew S
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Sat Jun 19, 2021 7:34 pm

@LeoFox: I don't think I've seen "biscuits" and "high end material" in the same description of a tea before I clicked on that link.

I'm curious: relative to other teas like yancha or high mountain tea, what is it that you're searching for in young puer? On the very rare occasion that I try them (before inevitably regretting my decision), I always find them to be harsh, difficult, and not yielding up any particularly nice attributes. Your description reminded me of why I don't enjoy them.

I'm sure that others have a different tolerance to bitterness, astringency, and 'coldness' than I do, but I often wonder why so many people appear to punish themselves with young puer when other teas seem to offer far less painful experiences.

Andrew
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debunix
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Sat Jun 19, 2021 8:11 pm

LeoFox wrote:
Sat Jun 19, 2021 5:17 pm
Feeling brave so had this young sheng from white2tea: 2020 biscuits
That was 2020 pressing of 2015 tea. Would you call that young because 2020 is young? Because 2015 tea is still young?
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LeoFox
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Sat Jun 19, 2021 8:35 pm

debunix wrote:
Sat Jun 19, 2021 8:11 pm
LeoFox wrote:
Sat Jun 19, 2021 5:17 pm
Feeling brave so had this young sheng from white2tea: 2020 biscuits
That was 2020 pressing of 2015 tea. Would you call that young because 2020 is young? Because 2015 tea is still young?
2015 still young.
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LeoFox
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Sat Jun 19, 2021 8:38 pm

Andrew S wrote:
Sat Jun 19, 2021 7:34 pm
LeoFox: I don't think I've seen "biscuits" and "high end material" in the same description of a tea before I clicked on that link.

I'm curious: relative to other teas like yancha or high mountain tea, what is it that you're searching for in young puer? On the very rare occasion that I try them (before inevitably regretting my decision), I always find them to be harsh, difficult, and not yielding up any particularly nice attributes. Your description reminded me of why I don't enjoy them.

I'm sure that others have a different tolerance to bitterness, astringency, and 'coldness' than I do, but I often wonder why so many people appear to punish themselves with young puer when other teas seem to offer far less painful experiences.

Andrew
I dont like most young sheng - an exception being certain "pooolong" like the ones from hojo which should probably be classified more as a white tea/oolong.

This was mainly for educational purposes. I recently started tasting young sheng like notes from a green tea and I wanted to confirm.
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wave_code
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Mon Jun 28, 2021 5:39 am

opened up a box of Y671 Lucky Brand from 2004 that I've been staring at for a while now. I gave it a couple days with a humidity pack and some holes in the plastic bag before trying it out this morning, but before it still even had the outer shrink wrap on it. the tea already smelled different and the humidity combined with the current heat seems to be helping it wake up though I am sure it has a ways to go. kind of interesting to drink a tea that is coming up on 20 years, but isn't exactly 'aged' tasting given how it was stored- theres no fermentation notes at all, but also still something kind of 'green' about it. I've seen these CNNP boxes described as vegetal, and I would agree - theres no real bitterness, but also no super typical shu notes since its not overly sweet, no basement or petrichor notes, no strong storage... some sort of green and slightly waxy vegetal notes, but also very smooth and easy drinking. brought on a bit of a sweat but nothing super strong, very easy on the stomach and body in the morning. I was expecting it to possibly have some sour character given how long it was stored totally sealed, but I didn't really notice any. I'm curious to see how it will change now that it is open after having some time to air out, wake up and rehydrate a bit.

part of my finally opening this one up is my looking for any continuing to try different loose stored pu, mostly shu. while the flavors are more intense or complex from a lot of cakes I've had, I still find myself really drawn to loose stored teas. I think its a part of the kind of processing some of those teas tend to get, but also that I feel like maybe uncompressed storage tends to bring out of favor the development of certain flavors that I find more appealing than others. my sheng knowledge I feel isn't enough to make much comparison there though between maocha and cakes - I know the slower and longer fermentation of a compressed cake seems to yield better and more complex tea in the long run, but that is me taking others word for it. but I think for shu material maybe the lack of compression also helps dissipate the fermentation taste faster, making room for the storage or material to develop other notes faster. I suppose its no surprise I guess that I favor liu bao as well. I also find myself reaching for my loose shu constantly because they are so easy drinking and seem to suit almost any weather or mood.
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LeoFox
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Wed Jun 30, 2021 7:01 pm

Sunsing Mangzhi 2007, via Anmo Artcha from a friend.

The leaves smelt slightly smoky - made me a bit worried...
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Brewed 3.5g in 110 mL HQSN pot. 15s rinse and then: flash steeps 9x, 30s, 1min, 2 min, 3 min , 5 min and then many longer steeps - at least 10 of them.

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Guess I didn't have to worry.

Only the first two infusions were slightly smoky...

Actually the smoke set a nice scene of dried fruits..maybe dates....a complex arrangement of herbs that I'm not going to try to pick out.

As steeps progressed, a nice vanilla note slid in along with...some dried mushroom savoriness and even oolong like chong wei!

Where's the bitterness??

The tea soup is so smooooooth..


Any problems? Astringency. Builds up in the belly over time pretty fast, but is fine on a full stomach. Good excuse to have a heavy meal..


The qi felt like hands going into my skull through the ears... and then gently massaging the sides of my head from the inside! This is not a bad feeling. No headache with this one like with so many others.

Highly recommended.

https://anmo-art-cha.com/collections/pu ... rh-teacake
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Last edited by LeoFox on Thu Jul 01, 2021 7:02 am, edited 2 times in total.
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