Japanese Green Tea: Aged, Roasted, Fermented

Non-oxidized tea
User avatar
tjkdubya
Vendor
Posts: 157
Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2019 12:57 am
Location: Beijing
Contact:

Sun Sep 22, 2019 10:24 pm

I have only tried one aged sencha, the 2011 vintage Yabukita below. Quite intriguing, and a memorable experience with Kyoto-area natural spring water. This one they said was produced with aging specifically in mind from the beginning; I don't know what that means. I'm afraid I don't know much about Japanese teas to be able to contextualize all this, but another few for your list!

https://www.tokaseisei.com/tea
User avatar
Victoria
Admin
Posts: 3043
Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2017 3:33 pm
Location: Santa Monica, CA
Contact:

Sun Sep 22, 2019 10:56 pm

tjkdubya wrote:
Sun Sep 22, 2019 10:24 pm
I have only tried one aged sencha, the 2011 vintage Yabukita below. Quite intriguing, and a memorable experience with Kyoto-area natural spring water. This one they said was produced with aging specifically in mind from the beginning; I don't know what that means. I'm afraid I don't know much about Japanese teas to be able to contextualize all this, but another few for your list!

https://www.tokaseisei.com/tea
Thanks for sharing this @tjkdubya. You remind me that I wanted to order a few of these aged sencha. How did the 2011 sencha you have taste?
From what I understand the tea is kept in cool storage for very slow aging.

For instance Tarui Tea Farm: 1999 Limited Reserve Aged Yabukita Kuradashi Fukamushicha, is processed to remove moisture, packed into sealed bags, and stored in -20˚C / -4˚F degree Kura (storehouse). That’s a freezer temperature, very cold. In this case the tea was removed 19 after years of rest/aging, tested, and if needed probably lightly roasted again. The description says it tastes somewhere between fukamushi and oolong.

On a side note, I have a few packs of 2015/2016 sencha in the refrigerator 5˚C / 40˚F degree that I plan on re-roasting with my sesame roaster as an experiment. Will share results as I proceed. Lot of elbow grease required :D
User avatar
tjkdubya
Vendor
Posts: 157
Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2019 12:57 am
Location: Beijing
Contact:

Thu Sep 26, 2019 1:41 am

2019-01-04 16.29.39.jpg
2019-01-04 16.29.39.jpg (200.38 KiB) Viewed 10316 times
2019-01-04 15.08.36.jpg
2019-01-04 15.08.36.jpg (147.37 KiB) Viewed 10316 times
@Victoria, ah... sub-zero aging! I was wondering what was being done. I can't confirm how exactly Toka's 2011 was stored, but here are a couple pics of our first time trying it.

We went into it not really knowing what to expect. I was surprised by how sprightly and green it was. No obvious sign of oxidation or yellowing. The dry leaves had a pleasant citrus note to it. On the palate, more than anything else there was the sense of ... a well-integrated whole. A lot of complex gentle fragrance tones, serene but somehow managing to be lively. This is a lot of flowery hand-waving as descriptions go, but I'm kind of at a loss how to precisely describe this. While going through 50g of this over the months, however, I don't think I've ever felt the need to describe it as a half-step the oolong direction. But I don't know how varied a category this is.

First try of aged sencha has me definitely interested in trying more.
User avatar
Zenshin
Posts: 15
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2019 4:13 pm
Location: Düsseldorf, Germany

Thu Sep 26, 2019 3:19 am

In my experience the quality and taste of aged Gyokuro and Sencha really depends on the basic material used.
The more common blended teas you get alway kind of lost some flavour on me where I found single cultivars and Zairai to be a bit more constant in retaining their characteristics, although I don't know how they would turn out when stored "properly" in sub-zero environment.

For example a Okumidori I had from 2016 got more complex fruity flavours, a smoother low-end and cut back on umami and overly grassy notes when compared to its 2018 counterpart from the same farmer. I also experienced similar things with Senchas I forgot in a caddy :lol:

Maybe storing them in caddies that allow the teas to breath hidden in relatively cool places, like was the case in the olden days with pottery jars in kura storehouses, makes for a more balanced aging compared to freezer storing. Has anybody made a comparison original leaf vs. the same aged in a freezer yet?
t-curious
Posts: 67
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2017 7:22 pm
Location: Omaha, Nebraska

Thu Sep 26, 2019 7:55 am

When aging greens in the refrigerator how do you all package it for storage?
User avatar
Zenshin
Posts: 15
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2019 4:13 pm
Location: Düsseldorf, Germany

Fri Sep 27, 2019 2:34 am

t-curious wrote:
Thu Sep 26, 2019 7:55 am
When aging greens in the refrigerator how do you all package it for storage?
I didn't do it myself yet, but I guess the original packaging and another layer around it should do the job.
It's fine as long as it doesn't get the chance to get wet and absorb any weird aromas from other things inside the freezer. (Who likes their Gyoks Lasagna flavoured :D ?)
User avatar
Victoria
Admin
Posts: 3043
Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2017 3:33 pm
Location: Santa Monica, CA
Contact:

Fri Sep 27, 2019 3:01 pm

t-curious wrote:
Thu Sep 26, 2019 7:55 am
When aging greens in the refrigerator how do you all package it for storage?
I have been using Loksak's Opsak ziplock bags odor and water proof thick camping thick ziplock bags in the refridgerator for several years now. Great bags, no odor or moisture passes through. A while ago I did an experiment with Refrigerating Sincha for a Few Years: 2013 vs 2016. Next I am going to start using my freezer as an experiment.

Victoria wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 1:47 pm
viewtopic.php?p=4097#p4097
The experiment I did between 2013 and 2016 was posted over at TC; Refridgerating Sincha for a Few Years: 2013 vs 2016

Basically if you do not have a dedicated refridgerator, it is very important to block odors out. I have found Loksak's Opsak ziplock bags do this perfectly. I only place unopened vacuum sealed tea bags in the refridgerator. I also use Mylar to block out any potential light filtration. When a bag is taken out of refridgerator, I let it rest at least 24hrs to acclimatize bag to room temperature, and prevent any condensation from pooling inside the bag. I only refrigerate greener teas to keep them fresh.

p.s. I’m sure there are other airtight odor and moisture proof solutions, I just happened to find the camping bear proof solution works perfectly :)
Another thread Questions about Storing Tea in Refridgerator
User avatar
Victoria
Admin
Posts: 3043
Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2017 3:33 pm
Location: Santa Monica, CA
Contact:

Fri Sep 27, 2019 3:20 pm

tjkdubya wrote:
Thu Sep 26, 2019 1:41 am
Victoria, ah... sub-zero aging! I was wondering what was being done. I can't confirm how exactly Toka's 2011 was stored, but here are a couple pics of our first time trying it.

We went into it not really knowing what to expect. I was surprised by how sprightly and green it was. No obvious sign of oxidation or yellowing. The dry leaves had a pleasant citrus note to it. On the palate, more than anything else there was the sense of ... a well-integrated whole. A lot of complex gentle fragrance tones, serene but somehow managing to be lively. This is a lot of flowery hand-waving as descriptions go, but I'm kind of at a loss how to precisely describe this. While going through 50g of this over the months, however, I don't think I've ever felt the need to describe it as a half-step the oolong direction. But I don't know how varied a category this is.

First try of aged sencha has me definitely interested in trying more.
Wow, it sounds like freezing the leaves, rather than refrigeration, gives very different aging results. Locks in freshness much better and mellows out the greener aspects. ‘Well integrated whole’ sounds perfect, your description is very good. Thanks for sharing your notes and images @tjkdubya
t-curious
Posts: 67
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2017 7:22 pm
Location: Omaha, Nebraska

Fri Sep 27, 2019 9:40 pm

Thanks @Victoria. Some good information. I’m rethinking my green tea storage.
luchayi
Posts: 64
Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2018 3:15 am
Location: Italy
Contact:

Wed Oct 02, 2019 5:01 am

During a tea tasting a friend show me this tea saying "Let's try it, it's a special sencha". And it was... floral, fresh, umami... So my friend told me "It's from 2001 harvest! I forgot this sample for years..." showing me the package "Sencha Yabukita 2001". What do you think about it? I had great handmade green teas that after few months started to loose their notes. It's a good rule keep the bag closed if you don't drink a tea instantly, but 18 years for a green tea... :shock: It destroyed a lot of my convincment about it.

IMG_20190930_113528_233.jpg
IMG_20190930_113528_233.jpg (53.47 KiB) Viewed 10213 times
IMG_20190930_113528_234.jpg
IMG_20190930_113528_234.jpg (10.79 KiB) Viewed 10213 times
IMG_20190930_113528_237.jpg
IMG_20190930_113528_237.jpg (42.04 KiB) Viewed 10213 times
You can find more pictures on my instagram page... (every shot is protected by copyright)
absence
Posts: 31
Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2018 3:44 pm

Wed Oct 02, 2019 8:06 am

While most of the thread is about aging, I thought I'd add something about roasting as well.

Ippodo's Iribancha with its smoky character was mentioned as an example of kyobancha. One Japanese tea vendor in Kyoto told me that the smokiness is a relatively recent phenomenon, and that kyobancha traditionally isn't smoky. Apparently smoky kyobancha occurred during WW2 when household metal items like pans were recycled into weapons, and people had to roast their tea in rusty old pans that let some smoke from the fire seep through. The smoky taste was popular enough that some vendors kept at it after the war ended. I don't know if it's true, but it's a nice story. Unfortunately it means that it's difficult to know if a vendor's kyobancha is smoky or not. You can ask, but often they'll confuse smoky with roasted flavour. I wrote about my experiences with some kyobanchas on "the other" forum.

Sazen has a similar tea called Inakabancha. It's from Shiga, which is one of Kyoto's neighbouring prefectures, so I guess it's not technically kyobancha, but the style is similar enough to other non-smoked kyobanchas. In fact I've seen similar types of tea at markets as far away from Kyoto as Kyushu, so it's not necessarily as regional as the name suggests. They're somewhat difficult to find for sale online, however.
Flavor Hedonist
Posts: 25
Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:56 am
Location: Philippines

Wed Oct 02, 2019 9:38 am

Zenshin wrote:
Thu Sep 26, 2019 3:19 am
Maybe storing them in caddies that allow the teas to breath hidden in relatively cool places, like was the case in the olden days with pottery jars in kura storehouses, makes for a more balanced aging compared to freezer storing. Has anybody made a comparison original leaf vs. the same aged in a freezer yet?
Maybe there is some merit in caddy storage. I remember seeing this: https://www.reddit.com/r/tea/comments/3 ... ng_greens/

It is done on Long Jing and it was only done for a year but there is some beneficial change according to the OP.

Although, I might look on freezer/ refrigerator aging as I live in a tropical country :lol:
User avatar
Zenshin
Posts: 15
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2019 4:13 pm
Location: Düsseldorf, Germany

Thu Oct 03, 2019 2:47 am

@luchayi those are some beautiful leaves! Maybe the grade of steaming also plays a role in how senchas age. In my opinion it would make sense for a well stored asa-/chumushi to age better/more regularly than a fukamushi. The small particles in the latter have less intact cells and a bigger surface area where oxygen etc. could "attack". Also thinking about leaves used for matcha being traditionally stored for at least half a year before grinding it would make sense that aging other good teas enhances flavour and depth.

Flavor Hedonist wrote:
Wed Oct 02, 2019 9:38 am
Zenshin wrote:
Thu Sep 26, 2019 3:19 am
Maybe storing them in caddies that allow the teas to breath hidden in relatively cool places, like was the case in the olden days with pottery jars in kura storehouses, makes for a more balanced aging compared to freezer storing. Has anybody made a comparison original leaf vs. the same aged in a freezer yet?
Maybe there is some merit in caddy storage. I remember seeing this: https://www.reddit.com/r/tea/comments/3 ... ng_greens/

It is done on Long Jing and it was only done for a year but there is some beneficial change according to the OP.

Although, I might look on freezer/ refrigerator aging as I live in a tropical country :lol:
I can second that for Long Jing. It seems that greens that underwent shaqing in pans loose some of their bitterness.
For tropical countries the freezer really sounds like the better option :lol:
User avatar
Zenshin
Posts: 15
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2019 4:13 pm
Location: Düsseldorf, Germany

Thu Oct 03, 2019 2:57 am

absence wrote:
Wed Oct 02, 2019 8:06 am
While most of the thread is about aging, I thought I'd add something about roasting as well.

Ippodo's Iribancha with its smoky character was mentioned as an example of kyobancha. One Japanese tea vendor in Kyoto told me that the smokiness is a relatively recent phenomenon, and that kyobancha traditionally isn't smoky. Apparently smoky kyobancha occurred during WW2 when household metal items like pans were recycled into weapons, and people had to roast their tea in rusty old pans that let some smoke from the fire seep through. The smoky taste was popular enough that some vendors kept at it after the war ended. I don't know if it's true, but it's a nice story. Unfortunately it means that it's difficult to know if a vendor's kyobancha is smoky or not. You can ask, but often they'll confuse smoky with roasted flavour. I wrote about my experiences with some kyobanchas on "the other" forum.

Sazen has a similar tea called Inakabancha. It's from Shiga, which is one of Kyoto's neighbouring prefectures, so I guess it's not technically kyobancha, but the style is similar enough to other non-smoked kyobanchas. In fact I've seen similar types of tea at markets as far away from Kyoto as Kyushu, so it's not necessarily as regional as the name suggests. They're somewhat difficult to find for sale online, however.
Very interesting. I didn't hear of that story either.
I tried Sazens Inakabancha too and was suprised that it wasn't that smokey! Smoke is good and all, but a stable roast mostly is more pleasant. Do you remember the name of those Kyûshû Bancha? The only other one I discovered was Florents Mimasaka bancha (https://www.thes-du-japon.com/index.php ... cts_id=727).
I could imagine there being or that there were more teas for the "common people" in different regions across Japan and Kyobancha just getting all the attention because, well, it's from Kyôto...
absence
Posts: 31
Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2018 3:44 pm

Thu Oct 03, 2019 7:06 am

Zenshin wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 2:57 am
Do you remember the name of those Kyûshû Bancha?
I don't think they had particular names, as it's something I would've remembered and looked into. I seem to recall generic packaging with no mention of source or even vendor, possibly with the name of the prefecture or similar unhelpful information. What I do remember was being annoyed that they were packed in bags too large for my suitcase (500 g or so of unrolled leaves has quite the volume!), so unfortunately I haven't even tasted them. They were quite cheap.
Post Reply