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Good Morning/Afternoon!

After thinking I was in pretty good shape for most of my 52 years on Earth (except for a few surgeries: kidney stones, skin cancer, hernias, microfracture knee surgery), I was diagnosed with a DVT bloodclot last October which made me realize maybe I should be concentrating on my inner workings health more than I have been. So after reading the benefits of green tea I recently picked up some decaf green tea at the local store (cheap green tea in tiny bags) and after not being impressed with it, I ventured onto the internet to find something that would give me more/better health benefits than these tea bags do.

So after a good bit of reading and searching I stumbled onto a site talking about this "super tea" called matcha. The more I read the more I became intrigued by the health benefits of this tea. So in my rush to start drinking this "make me feel better and get me healthier" tea, I ordered a couple items online to get me started: some Encha Ceremonial Organic Matcha and a handheld milk frother for mixing the tea (if I continue drinking the matcha I'm sure I'll order a bamboo whisk in the future as well as a chawan).

I guess my newbie questions are:
btw: as of now I plan on just adding water and possible a touch of sweetner to it; not making smoothies/lattes/etc.

- Is the Encha Ceremonial Organic Matcha a decent matcha to start with?

- I also looked at some Jade Leaf Organic Culinary Grade matcha that was half the price of the Encha. How large of a difference is there in the quality and benefits of the ceremonial grade matcha compared to this culinary grade matcha?

- What are some of the best affordable matcha powder you've found that taste excellent?

- Are there other types of powder teas that offer excellent health benefits that are fixed and drank like matcha tea? If so, what are they?

- What other advice can you give me when it comes to matcha tea...or any other teas for that matter - whether it be things to look for, ways to fix it, websites to help me, where to order in the future, or anything else?

Thank you very much for your help and patience with all of my questions!

Have a fantastic day!

TripleB67

Hey TripleB, welcome to the forum and the world of tea.

Let me start by saying this is a forum of tea enthusiasts, so we tend not to enjoy tea for any supposed health benefits but rather because we like the stuff so dang much. Tea enthusiasts also tend to be a skeptical bunch when it comes to health claims surrounding tea. That said, you have honest questions so I'll do my best to answer them.

The first thing you should know about matcha as it's presented in the West: the label "ceremonial" isn't real. Japanese producers and sellers themselves don't use the term. What separates "good" matcha from "bad" is the way it's grown and processed. The "good" matcha tends to have much higher L-Theanine content, as this is what gives it the depth and sweetness prized by enthusiast drinkers like myself. If you want to enjoy this type of matcha, that's wonderful but it's not necessarily the most "effective" in terms of seeking potential health benefits.

Since catechins and polyphenols are the "healthy stuff" you've heard of, what you actually want are the teas with the highest amount of those two things. Counter-intuitively, it's the "lower" quality matchas that sometimes have more because they are also the same things that make matcha bitter. Said bitterness makes matcha unattractive to folks who drink it straight for the flavor experience or for ceremonial preparation.

Now, to your specific questions:

- Encha is a reasonable starting point. I'd mark them as a decent mid-grade seller.
- Jade Leaf is also a decent seller in the same realm as Encha. "Culinary" grade is cheaper because using matcha as an ingredient in cooking or baking means you actually want it to have a stronger bitter character to lend depth to your recipe.
- You may also encounter something called "Latte" grade. Again, these distinctions are only useful in so far as they direct you how to use the product. This will also be of a lesser quality because they know you'll be adding sweeteners, milk, and other things to it.
- Mizuba has a $20 "House" blend matcha that's decent. Yunomi's house brand products are also an incredible bang for your buck. If you want something that punches above it's weight class, Kettl's "Soukou" matcha is about as cheap as you can get for a product at that level.
- This forum likely won't be able to comment on any other tonics or tinctures related to health.

Other advice:

For matcha, quality matters and you should expect to pay for quality. I generally plan on anywhere from $0.70-0.80/gram to start. The closer you take me to $2/g the more demanding I'll get. For more serious information on matcha (though likely not much on health benefits), read the blogs of respectable sellers such as Kettl, Yunomi, and others. Hang around on this forum and also check out r/tea on reddit.

The nature of tea is you should expect to pay some tea tuition. You're going to try some things you don't like or find out after it wasn't as good as you expected. That's the price of admission to the wider world of tea. We're happy to help you with recommendations and other questions such as how to make matcha, and so on. I wrote a massive guide that covers most of the above in depth on my blog, if you'd like to check that out.

Hope this helps!

Thank you very much for taking the time to reply and for all the incredible information you gave me!

I hope I didn't offend anyone by asking my questions or by the fact that I'm initially starting to drink matcha tea because of the health benefits. The more I read online (and from your guide) the more I'm intrigued by everything else about it other than just the health benefits. So while I was initially drawn to it because of the health benefits, I can see myself diving more in depth to the process, the enjoyment, and the calming it can bring to my life. Again, I hope I didn't offend anyone here by my initial post!

So it seems that since the labels ceremonial and culinary are not what the producers and seller use, then it appears that tasting many different types/brands of matcha is really the only way to determine what my taste buds like? Whether it's the most "healthy" or not, I feel like I will enjoy the matcha better if it tastes better to my pallet....that "depth and sweetness" you mentioned. But, it seems as though it will take a great deal time for me to develop a true taste for what is quality matcha (which I look forward to). Although starting out I am looking at the health benefits, I do want to eventually become someone who wants to have the "flavor experience" and drink it for the pure enjoyment of it, regardless of the other benefits it offers.

Let me stop here and ask a question: Is it strange that I would drink both higher and lower quality matcha? The higher quality for the taste/sweetness and the lower quality/bitter since they may contain more of the catechins and polyphenols.

I appreciate you answering my questions. I will definitely look into Mizuba, Yunomi, and Kettls! As a beginner I felt the need to turn to Amazon to get my first tastes, but will look towards other sellers in the future!

I have read through your guide once so far and am definitely going to read through it several more times (at least) much more slowly!

Thank you so much for your time and your insight! I am looking forward to learning and tasting more on this new journey!!!

TripleB67

Oh, don't worry! nobody here should be offended by someone curious wandering in with genuine questions about tea. We were all beginners at some point and we all enter into tea at different points and for our own reasons. In that sense, this is the perfect place for you to explore and learn more!

You hit the nail on the head re: testing and tasting. I did the exact same thing when I started drinking matcha. No matter how hard I tried to learn through reading, eventually it came down to slapping down some greenbacks and figuring it out with my tongue.

Absolutely nothing wrong with starting with Encha or Jade Leaf on Amazon. Like I said, they both make quality product for the price. Jade Leaf even launched an "exclusive" premium series earlier this year or late last year (I forget which) that's more along the lines of what you'd be drinking when you cross the threshold into higher-level teas.

There's also nothing wrong with keeping various types of matchas around to use based on the type of drink you're interested in, be it straight whisked or blended as a latte or smoothie. One thing to consider however is matcha is very sensitive to oxygen. As such, it loses most of its vibrance after about 3 months of opening. That doesn't mean it goes bad, it's just way less good, ya know?

Fridge storage when not in use mitigates some of this, but at some point it's just science.

Last point I'll make is, generally drinking the best tea you can is the best way to benefit from tea. Higher quality tea is just better across the board, so it's acting in your favor whether you realize it or not. As your sensitivity towards tea grows, you may be surprised to find you gain an awareness within your body that tells you when something is mixing well with your energy and when it's not. Sounds like hand-wavy woo-woo nonsense, but I'm no voodoo doctor when it comes to tea and even I believe in the energy of tea through personal experience.

It was made as medicine long before it was enjoyed as a beverage, anyways.

Good luck and come back when you have more questions or to share your journey! I do love to hear how folks are getting along.

thetealetter wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 23, 2020 12:01 am

...generally drinking the best tea you can is the best way to benefit from tea. Higher quality tea is just better across the board, so it's acting in your favor whether you realize it or not.

THIS!

You’ll enjoy it more which will result in drinking it more. You’ll be more likely to keep up with something that’s not unpleasant like taking medicine.

Also, good tea is cheaper than it’s equivalent in wine. While really good tea may seem expensive we are getting a bargain compared to other beverages.

thetealetter wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 23, 2020 12:01 am

As your sensitivity towards tea grows, you may be surprised to find you gain an awareness within your body that tells you when something is mixing well with your energy and when it's not.

This is an aspect that we all are aware of but seldom discuss. I don’t believe in woo but there is something there. The rationalist in me says that the various photochemicals in tea interact on the unique complex of chemicals in our bodies, causing different sensations for different people. Some of us refer to this as cha qi (tea energy), but I don’t know many people who think this is mystical. It’s the affect of tea on each person’s constitution.

In the mid-2000s green tea became very popular and with the popularity came shortcuts like green tea extract. I know three people who permanently damaged their kidneys with green tea extract. It’s wise to avoid shortcuts like supplements and drink actual tea as you are doing.

As @thetealetter said, most of us don’t speak about the health benefits because we are mostly interested in the flavor of tea. Also, some aspects of tea production might offset the perceived health benefits of tea. Lastly, the evidence for and against is kind of sketchy.

However, there is some indication that polyphenols and catechins may be good for health. These are the same chemicals that contribute to olive oil’s supposed health benefits (and why fresh, higher quality olive oil is a wee bit bitter like tea). Also, drinking tea is a relaxing pastime and we all know that relaxation is good for heart health.

I will share this personal anecdote regarding health.

I fell in a ravine one evening and broke my leg in two places. The bones were 30° off center and I had to have surgery to put a rod in my leg. The expected time for the bones to fuse was 3 months. It was summer and all I could do was drink tea, read, and play video games. I drank about a gallon of cold steeped Taiwanese high mountain tea (gaoshan cha) from Dayuling. This is a greenish oolong with a gardenia and spice aroma. It’s a bit exclusive because there’s more demand for this special tea than there are acres to grow it on.

On my 1 month follow up the doctor put my x-rays on the light board and the look on his face was one of shock. The bones had fused in 1 month instead of 3. He turned to me and asked what I was doing. I told him I was just drinking good tea. He swatted the air dismissively of course.

I later found that scientists are investigating the positive link between bone density and tea.

Did tea heal my bones? I don’t know. I broke a lot of bones before I drank tea and this was the only time they took less than 3 months to fuse.

One thing I can tell you for sure: tea will not make you lose weight!

One more thing.

Higher quality green teas will be fresher, which definitely tastes better and probably has more of the polyphenols and catechins you are wanting.

Besides matcha, sencha is another delicious, easy to find green tea. Itoen makes a mass market blend that is acceptable as an inexpensive everyday drinker. I am almost embarrassed to admit it but my everyday sencha for work is simply called “Organic Sencha”. It’s from The Steeping Room in Austin, Texas. I regularly drink better senchas but their “Organic Sencha” is uncharacteristically forgiving if I get distracted by work. It’s my wife’s favorite tea for that reason.

https://www.thesteepingroom.com/collect ... nic-sencha

Japanese green teas should be either dark green or vibrantly green. Here’s a photo of a high end sencha.

Here is a photo of matcha gone bad. Good matcha is vibrantly green. I found this sad jar of matcha at an upscale grocery store a few months back and had to take a photo. Tea like this is dead. It taste bad and feels bad. I’m sure someone is drinking this for their health but they really shouldn’t.

Whenever someone asks me about the health benefits of tea, my answer is that it's not bad for you, probably good in fact, but that they should drink it because they like it and consider anything else a (slight) bonus.

TripleB67 wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 21, 2020 8:34 am

So after a good bit of reading and searching I stumbled onto a site talking about this "super tea" called matcha.

Matcha is a prime example of things getting blown out of proportion by headline-focused media and others.

TripleB67 wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 21, 2020 8:34 am

- Are there other types of powder teas that offer excellent health benefits that are fixed and drank like matcha tea? If so, what are they?

You can find other powdered teas, but as far as I know, none of them taste good. In fact, most of them probably just exist to cash in on the matcha fad. And a lot of the cheap "matcha" is actually Chinese green tea that has been powdered.

TripleB67 wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 21, 2020 8:34 am

- What other advice can you give me when it comes to matcha tea...or any other teas for that matter - whether it be things to look for, ways to fix it, websites to help me, where to order in the future, or anything else?

The following two videos are probably the best I have seen on how to prepare it. The German has subtitles.




This video series is a good primer on everything matcha: https://www.the-tea-crane.com/free-matc ... ni-course/

Where to buy it? Rarely in your local shops, unfortunately. Matcha requires some care to not go stale - and most shops simply don't know enough.

O-Cha is good value and the selection is small enough that you won't get lost.
The Tea Crane seems to be very good.
Nio Teas I have also heard good things about.

This video from Thes-du-Japon was very helpful to me as a matcha beginner, originally posted by @Baisao. I already owned a sifter, but since watching this video I’ve only used it for a tin of very “clumpy” matcha.

Janice wrote: ↑

Sun Apr 26, 2020 10:51 am

This video from Thes-du-Japon was very helpful to me as a matcha beginner, originally posted by Baisao. I already owned a sifter, but since watching this video I’ve only used it for a tin of very “clumpy” matcha.

@Janice, I am very happy to hear that the video helped. I just made some this way a few minutes ago and it was creamy and delicious.

First let me say how much I appreciate everyone responding to my post with incredibly helpful information and for not making feel like an idiot with my questions...all your help is awesome!!! I'll try and respond to the information in the order it was given in your posts!

When you mention storing the matcha in the fridge, is that even if you're going to be using some of it within two or three days?

Thanks for sharing the importance of purchasing quality matcha! As my taste for the difference between lower quality and higher quality matcha becomes more "refined", I'm sure I'll be able to tell a lot of difference between the quality of what I'm drinking. I don't drink alcoholic beverages so look at all that money I'm saving there that I can spend on matcha

I'll definitely stay away from any shortcuts as far as getting the benefits of green tea. Yes, the health benefits are what first drew me to matcha tea but as I peel back the layers of the process, the ceremony, the importance, the calmness it brings, and the depth of taste I'm sure I'll stick with matcha for all those reasons and any health benefits will just be a bonus. Anything that helps my heart (whether through the chemicals within the tea or because of the relaxation it brings) will be much appreciated...currently have a DVT bloodclot in my leg and both my dad and grandfather died of heart attacks.

Sorry to hear about your legs but that's incredible that the bones fused in 1/3 the time as expected...just amazing!!!

Sencha Tea? Huh, I'll definitely have to check into that! I watched a short video on brewing it after reading this and it was interesting to see how little time they left the tea leaves in the water before pouring it into three different cups. Thank you for the photograph...they almost look like little green twigs...I assume they open up when put in water and release their flavor.

I appreciate the videos - each one was a great help in showing me how it should be made. I've ordered a chasen but it won't be here for another 10 days or so.

I had my first experience with matcha yesterday....
So, as a newbie, I didn't want to spend too much money on matcha to begin with, at least until I was 100% sure I was going to continue to drink it (which I'm pretty much at that point now). So I ordered the following matcha just to see if there was a difference in quality and also so I could learn to make matcha without worrying about messing up expensive matcha: Jade Leaf Matcha Culinary Grade ($10/30g), Oishi Matcha Latte Grade ($15/30g), and Encha Ceremonial Organic Matcha ($20/30g).

Yesterday I made my first chawan of matcha using the Jade Leaf Culinary. I put hot water in the bowl to get it warm, dried it out, used our Keurig machine to get my hot water (until my kettle gets here tomorrow), sifted the matcha into the bowl, and then used a milk frother (until I get my chasen) to mix the matcha. The frother seemed to mix the matcha up nicely because I didn't have any lumps at all, it had a tiny bit of froth on top, and the color was a really nice mid to dark green. As far as taste, I'm really not sure what I was expecting. It smelled somewhat grassy but to be honest it didn't have as much flavor as I was expecting. It was reasonably smooth...no left over matcha residue that I noticed Next I'm going to try the Oishi Matcha (saving the Encha to last) and see how it compares to the Jade Leaf. I'll be back.....

OK, I'm back from my second ever chawan of matcha. I used the Oishi Matcha Latte Grade just now. The Oishi Matcha is a darker green, has much more of a "tea" smell (as opposed to the "grassiness" of the Jade Leaf Culinary), it also smelled fresher (if that's possible), and it appeared much more finely ground compared to the Jade Leaf. I used a sifter but to be honest I really didn't need to...I obviously know nothing about matcha but to this novice this appeared to be a higher quality than the Jade Leaf Culinary. It offered more froth on top than the Jade Leaf did and a much darker green hue. The taste of the Oishi seemed to be smoother and had a more appealing flavor to it. Overall, after first tastes, I definitely preferred this to the Jade Leaf...the only advantage the Jade Leaf had is that it seemed to mix better than the Oishi. Even though the Oishi is a finer matcha it didn't seem to mix as well as the Jade Leaf because I could feel a little of the power in my drink.

I look forward to trying the Encha tomorrow once I get my kettle and get the temperature exactly where it's supposed to be. My kettle goes up my 5 degree increments so at what temperature should I set it (F degrees) for the best cup of matcha? 175 degrees?

Again, I appreciate all your help and you allowing me to post about my newbie journey with matcha!!!

Have a fantastic week!!!

TripleB67

TripleB67 wrote: ↑

Mon Apr 27, 2020 9:26 am

First let me say how much I appreciate everyone responding to my post with incredibly helpful information and for not making feel like an idiot with my questions...all your help is awesome!!!

Asking questions when there is something you are curious about is a sign of intelligence. Being an idiot would be lacking knowledge about a subject of interest or importance, and not trying to do anything about it. A couple of years ago I was basically in your position, and joining this forum last fall has contributed tremendously to my enjoyment of tea.

TripleB67 wrote: ↑

Mon Apr 27, 2020 9:26 am

I don't drink alcoholic beverages so look at all that money I'm saving there that I can spend on matcha

Already finding ways to justify spending a bit much on tea? One suggestion : try so stay away from teaware threads, or you may find yourself suddenly coming up with reasons to purchase things you never knew you wanted. You have been warned.

TripleB67 wrote: ↑

Mon Apr 27, 2020 9:26 am

Sencha Tea? Huh, I'll definitely have to check into that!

You will! I would suggest you add gyokuro to your list too, as another type of Japanese green tea. All three are very different and worth trying. You will see them discussed often here.

Baisao wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 24, 2020 11:35 pm

Besides matcha, sencha is another delicious, easy to find green tea. Itoen makes a mass market blend that is acceptable as an inexpensive everyday drinker. I am almost embarrassed to admit it but my everyday sencha for work is simply called “Organic Sencha”. It’s from The Steeping Room in Austin, Texas. I regularly drink better senchas but their “Organic Sencha” is uncharacteristically forgiving if I get distracted by work. It’s my wife’s favorite tea for that reason.

Since you mentioned Sencha tea I've been trying to read (and watch videos) about how to make it. It seems pretty straight forward except the part I don't understand is about reusing the leaves. One video I watched said you could use the same leaves to make "two or three small pots" (it appeared he made them all at the same time) while another video said you could use the same leaves for "9 or 10 steeps" (it didn't show him making but one pot).

Are either one of these correct? If so, do you have to make all the tea from them when you steep them for the very first time? If you don't have to reuse them right away, do you lay them out to dry, leave them in the kyusu, or what?

Thank you very much for your help in clarifying this for me!

TripleB67

@TripleB67, we generally re-steep loose leaf teas. How many infusions you get will depend upon the individual tea you are using.

In the case of sencha, I’ll take 4 grams and steep it in 80-100 ml of water. The water will be around 165-180° F.

I’ll steep that for about 1 min. That’s my first infusion.

For my second infusion, I’ll add the same volume and temperature of water to the wet leaves and let that steep for 15-20 seconds. This second infusion is short because the leaves will dump a lot of flavor quickly at this point.

For my third infusion, I’ll add the same volume and temperature of water to the wet leaves and let that steep for 45 seconds.

For my fourth infusion, I’ll add the same volume and temperature of water to the wet leaves and let that steep for 90 seconds.

If I get more infusions after this, I increase the heat and steeping time.

If you need to pause between infusions, let the tea leaves sit in the kyusu without water, but no longer than a day. I seldom find myself needing to pause but if I do, I just leave the wet leaves in the dry kyusu.

My apologies for using metric measures. It makes it easier to scale since the weight is so light and most tea pots indicate their volume in ml. It doesn’t take long to get used to it. I use a small gram scale that I got from an online store that sells ammunition reloading supplies. Ammo reloading stores have the best prices on scales for some reason.

Here is more information, including a video, demonstrating how to make sencha: https://www.thes-du-japon.com/index.php ... =page&id=5

Here are a couple of examples of the types of pocket scales some of us use. Ideally, the lid will serve as a “cup” to hold the tea leaves and the whole thing could fit in a pocket. I do not own either of these but they are similar to what I use.

Baisao wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 28, 2020 4:29 pm

If you need to pause between infusions, let the tea leaves sit in the kyusu without water, but no longer than a day. I seldom find myself needing to pause but if I do, I just leave the wet leaves in the dry kyusu.

My apologies for using metric measures. It makes it easier to scale since the weight is so light and most tea pots indicate their volume in ml. It doesn’t take long to get used to it. I use a small gram scale that I got from an online store that sells ammunition reloading supplies. Ammo reloading stores have the best prices on scales for some reason.

Thank you for the information! That's exactly what I was looking for - I guess you can have however may infusions until the flavor runs out of the leaves or the time you have to steep them gets ridiculously long? So if I leave them in the kyusu for say a day...will they dry out or will they stay wet until I use them again the next day? I apologize for all the questions...I'm sure some of this will be trial and error on my part but I thought since I have the experts here I might as well ask.

No worries on the metric measurements. I modify tennis racquets in my spare time so I'm used to working with grams because I can be more exact with my modifications to the racquets. I bought this scale to use with my tennis racquets (although I only paid $25 for it): https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002CM6TVI/r ... =UTF8&th=1. It's really accurate but obviously won't fit into my pocket to take with me. I'm teaching from home now because of Covid-19 so luckily I can experiment with various teas within the comfort of my home. Edit: of course now that I look at the scales you mention, they are accurate to .01 gram and mine is only accurate to 1 gram - I guess I better invest in a more accurate scale

Interesting that ammo reloading supply places would sell scales the cheapest!

Again, I appreciate you time and patience with all my questions! They have been an incredible help!

TripleB67