What Green Are You Drinking

Non-oxidized tea
User avatar
Jo
Mrs. Chip
Posts: 266
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2017 6:48 pm
Location: Pennsylvania

Fri Jan 17, 2020 1:10 pm

bYn2pW9P-62304971.jpeg
bYn2pW9P-62304971.jpeg (201.06 KiB) Viewed 938 times
Sorry for the delay Vanenbow ...
Vanenbw
Posts: 176
Joined: Mon Dec 16, 2019 10:14 pm
Location: NJ, USA

Fri Jan 17, 2020 8:45 pm

Thank you, @Jo. I love the hagi cups. What size are they, approximately? Finding the right cups to drink from is so important, isn't it? I love my new Arita-yaki cup from O-cha. It truly enhances my cup of tea. I'm drinking some sencha from it right now. Thanks for sharing the photo. I love it.
sanshiros
New user
Posts: 2
Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2020 6:56 am

Mon Jan 20, 2020 7:03 am

Do I have to drink Sencha tea immediately after steeping ?
I bought a Thermos-Can to store steeped Sencha tea and enjoy it throughout the day at my work.
I just read somewhere that this will destroy the properties of the green tea because it will completely lose its value and it will oxidize.
They recommended that I should drink it immediately after steeping and it should not be treated like a coffee ( having it in a can all day long )

If that's true then I should return the "thermos" can back.
Last edited by Victoria on Mon Jan 20, 2020 12:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Mod edit: moved post here
User avatar
Victoria
Admin
Posts: 2056
Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2017 3:33 pm
Location: Santa Monica, CA
Contact:

Mon Jan 20, 2020 12:43 pm

sanshiros wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 7:03 am
Do I have to drink Sencha tea immediately after steeping ?
I bought a Thermos-Can to store steeped Sencha tea and enjoy it throughout the day at my work.
I just read somewhere that this will destroy the properties of the green tea because it will completely lose its value and it will oxidize.
They recommended that I should drink it immediately after steeping and it should not be treated like a coffee ( having it in a can all day long )

If that's true then I should return the "thermos" can back.
Welcome to TeaForum @sanshiros. Looking forward to your introduction. Delicate young greens are freshest sipped right away, but by using an enclosed sealed container like a thermos oxidation will be held back for several hours. Definitely isn’t like coffee, although coffee degrades as well after a few hours. When I’m away from my tea table and want a thermos of Japanese green tea I’ve been using high quality kabusecha tea bags that stay fresh for at least 4 hours in an insulated travel mug. After 5-6hrs though the best is starting to degrade and get funky. @debunix frequently posts about using a thermos with various teas, maybe do a search.
User avatar
debunix
Posts: 928
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2017 1:27 am
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Mon Jan 20, 2020 10:40 pm

I rarely use greens in the thermos--sometimes starting with 5 minutes in hot water, filling maybe 1/2 inch, and then filling up with cold water makes a nice cool brew after a few hours, but it's really tricky and unless I'm drinking it chilled (sparkling sencha!), I rarely do it.

It does oxidize and degrade very quickly when infused.

But: a little cold water on a pot of mostly spent sencha leaves before leaving the house in the morning often yields a very fine end-of-day infusion.
User avatar
Bok
Vendor
Posts: 3147
Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2017 8:55 am
Location: Taiwan

Mon Jan 20, 2020 11:34 pm

sanshiros wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 7:03 am
Do I have to drink Sencha tea immediately after steeping ?
As always, it depends.

You don't have to, but you might not like the result.

It also depends on the quality of your sencha. High quality will more likely be able to stand such non-ideal conditions. Mid-low quality might become quite terrible. Low quality Sencha, steeped wrong makes me feel nauseous and un-well. So best thing is to test it.
User avatar
Bok
Vendor
Posts: 3147
Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2017 8:55 am
Location: Taiwan

Mon Jan 20, 2020 11:36 pm

sanshiros wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 7:03 am
If that's true then I should return the "thermos" can back.
Actually, instead of retuning it, keep it. Bring hot water to work instead and make fresh tea at your desk with a simple set-up like a Hohin and a cup.
sanshiros
New user
Posts: 2
Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2020 6:56 am

Tue Jan 21, 2020 3:59 am

Thanks for the replies.

Is it possible to add ice cubes to make a hot-brewed tea cold and then store it in Thermos for the day ? Will it go bad even when it becomes cold ?
User avatar
debunix
Posts: 928
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2017 1:27 am
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Tue Jan 21, 2020 10:11 am

I’ve never tried it quite that way. I’ve enjoyed some green teas brewed cool in various ways—sometimes just dry tea dropped into cold water and refrigerated several hours, or being covered with a very small amount of hot water for a few minutes, then adding cool water and letting it sit an hour or three. The little bit of hot start water at the start in the second case speeds things up a bit while the long cool extraction bring out less of what is bitter and unpleasant to me in the tea than fully infusing at heat and then chilling down the tea would.

But that said, I’ve never tried it as you described, and your tea and taste buds may vary.

For hot green tea away from my electric kettle, however, I’ve occasionally brought a thermos full of very hot water plus a shiboridashi/gaiwan/pot and a cup. The problem with this is that the water is getting cooler as the infusions progress, the opposite of what I usually do when sitting by the kettle and heating as I drink. I’m lucky to have had the facilities management people not freak out over my electric kettle on my cabinet in my office, so I can brew as I like to at my desk.

And back to the topic, this morning I’m enjoying another of the competition green tea set from Imen at TeaHabitat, purchased a couple of years ago and stored in the refrigerator until opened recently: “Jin Niu Zao” is the extent of what I have on the label.

The dry leaf is very fine delicate thin twists—probably buds—with a lot of gray downy surfaces mixed with various shades of gray-green. There is a light vegetal/floral scent, and the tea liquor is very delicate but after a few short infusions the wet leaves are mostly reminiscent of cooked peas.
User avatar
Victoria
Admin
Posts: 2056
Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2017 3:33 pm
Location: Santa Monica, CA
Contact:

Wed Feb 05, 2020 3:38 pm

Enjoying a kind gift, an Oku-Midori cultivar, futsumushi steamed sencha, from Thes du Japon; Miyakonojo, Miyazaki, Oku-Midori. As in it’s name, it is from Miyakonojô Town, Miyazaki Prefecture in southern Japan along the Pacific. Biscotti bakery aroma is coming off the preheated kyusu. The liquor is nutty, buttery, smooth and fruity with a full mouth feel. It induces a lingering palate with strong salivation, or as Thes du Japon calls it ‘long in the mouth’. Yumm so good and elegant.

10g/140ml/146f/60sec, in preheated reduction fired Gyokuren kyusu that has a sesame filter to catch very fine needles, with Crystal Gyser Olancha.

Curious, why both Thes du Japon and O-Cha use astringency rather than bitterness as a noted quality. I think they both use astringency to mean bitterness, strange. Astringency to me implies causing a contraction in the mouth, a drying effect. Also, bitterness is a taste, astringency is a sensation.
faj
Posts: 278
Joined: Mon Oct 14, 2019 6:45 am
Location: Quebec

Wed Feb 05, 2020 4:38 pm

Victoria wrote:
Wed Feb 05, 2020 3:38 pm
Curious, why both Thes du Japon and O-Cha use astringency rather than bitterness as a noted quality.
English is not my first language, so I am not sure about this, but could "astringent" be less likely to convey a negative connotation?
Vanenbw
Posts: 176
Joined: Mon Dec 16, 2019 10:14 pm
Location: NJ, USA

Thu Feb 06, 2020 10:52 pm

Victoria wrote:
Wed Feb 05, 2020 3:38 pm
Enjoying a kind gift, an Oku-Midori cultivar, futsumushi steamed sencha, from Thes du Japon; Miyakonojo, Miyazaki, Oku-Midori. As in it’s name, it is from Miyakonojô Town, Miyazaki Prefecture in southern Japan along the Pacific. Biscotti bakery aroma is coming off the preheated kyusu. The liquor is nutty, buttery, smooth and fruity with a full mouth feel. It induces a lingering palate with strong salivation, or as Thes du Japon calls it ‘long in the mouth’. Yumm so good and elegant.

10g/140ml/146f/60sec, in preheated reduction fired Gyokuren kyusu that has a sesame filter to catch very fine needles, with Crystal Gyser Olancha.

Curious, why both Thes du Japon and O-Cha use astringency rather than bitterness as a noted quality. I think they both use astringency to mean bitterness, strange. Astringency to me implies causing a contraction in the mouth, a drying effect. Also, bitterness is a taste, astringency is a sensation.
I'm no tea expert by any means, but technically astringency sounds appropriate to describe the bitterness of tea. Oxford's definition is:

slight acidity or bitterness of taste or smell.
"you can add a bag of fruit-flavored tea to the cup to minimize the astringency of green tea"

I must admit, I always used the word, bitter, to describe green tea until I started frequenting the forum and reading articles on brewing tea. I just started parroting the word, astringent, I suppose.

@Victoria If I may ask, do you literally measure the water (and if so, how are you getting so precise a measurement? My Pyrex jumps from 125ml to 150ml)? Or is your teapot 140ml and you fill it to the top?

And one more thing...10 grams of leaf to 140ml of water? Holy cow. Is this a very mellow tea? I find some teas I can go with a higher leaf to water ratio, like sae midori asamuchi.
User avatar
Victoria
Admin
Posts: 2056
Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2017 3:33 pm
Location: Santa Monica, CA
Contact:

Fri Feb 07, 2020 2:04 am

Vanenbw wrote:
Thu Feb 06, 2020 10:52 pm
Victoria wrote:
Wed Feb 05, 2020 3:38 pm
10g/140ml/146f/60sec, in preheated reduction fired Gyokuren kyusu that has a sesame filter to catch very fine needles, with Crystal Gyser Olancha.

Curious, why both Thes du Japon and O-Cha use astringency rather than bitterness as a noted quality. I think they both use astringency to mean bitterness, strange. Astringency to me implies causing a contraction in the mouth, a drying effect. Also, bitterness is a taste, astringency is a sensation.
I'm no tea expert by any means, but technically astringency sounds appropriate to describe the bitterness of tea. Oxford's definition is:

slight acidity or bitterness of taste or smell.
"you can add a bag of fruit-flavored tea to the cup to minimize the astringency of green tea"

I must admit, I always used the word, bitter, to describe green tea until I started frequenting the forum and reading articles on brewing tea. I just started parroting the word, astringent, I suppose.

Victoria If I may ask, do you literally measure the water (and if so, how are you getting so precise a measurement? My Pyrex jumps from 125ml to 150ml)? Or is your teapot 140ml and you fill it to the top?

And one more thing...10 grams of leaf to 140ml of water? Holy cow. Is this a very mellow tea? I find some teas I can go with a higher leaf to water ratio, like sae midori asamuchi.
Today I had a Futsumushi sencha from Mie that turned bitter very easily, even when using cooler water, going from 158f down to 130f. Maybe I’ll just cold brew it next. Also, I think I’ll just keep using bitter for that sometimes unpleasant taste, and astringency for when my mouth has the sensation of getting contracted and dry. But I’ll keep in mind the definitions you shared above, although I don’t know what a bitter smell is. What @faj deduced sort of makes sense, that “astringent" (might) be less likely to convey a negative connotation”, I’ll add in Japanese.

Gram leaf to ml water ratio really depends on the particular Japanese tea. Unlike oolong that can be generalized to approximately +-6g/100ml for most gongfu cha steeping, Japanese teas are much more variable and nuanced. I might use a similar proportional ratio 10grams/140ml for a variety of Japanese greens, some lighter in character, others bolder. The one above is elegant, refined, and rich. It can take more leaf making it brothier and thicker. With each new gyokuro, kabusecha, sencha I’ll tweek steeping ratios until I’ve reached a good balance.

I pretty much know the capacity of all my kyusu, but if I forget I reference my notes or when pre-warming the kyusu I’ll place it on a gram/oz scale and refresh my memory. 1gram = 1ml so no need to convert. This is the scale I currently use American Weigh Scale Digital Pocket Scale, 1000G x 0.1G
Vanenbw
Posts: 176
Joined: Mon Dec 16, 2019 10:14 pm
Location: NJ, USA

Fri Feb 07, 2020 6:54 am

@Victoria I wonder if using fewer tea leaves may help alleviate some of the bitterness from the Futsumushi sencha. I really can't comment on it because I'm not familiar with this particular tea. I'm constantly adjusting my tea leaf to water ratio and keeping notes so I can achieve the optimal flavor for myself. But my taste can change from day to day. So it's never one-size-fits-all for me.

I'm starting to discover how much the tea leaf to water ratio can differ for particular Japanese teas. I have tried to apply the same ratios for different tea and experienced some unpleasant results. That's why it's good I'm keeping a log. I can't remember the ratios I use for all the drinks I drink, so I refer to the log, which includes all the measurements and water temperature, and comments on each infusion.

I haven't tried placing my kyusu on the gram scale yet. I either fill my kyusu or houhin to the top, which is 160ml, or I measure in a Pyrex measuring cup. I can try measuring on the scale for a precise measurement. I bought a gram scale by GDealer. It's small, which is perfect for jewelers, but it works like a charm for green tea. It's pretty accurate.
faj
Posts: 278
Joined: Mon Oct 14, 2019 6:45 am
Location: Quebec

Fri Feb 07, 2020 7:29 am

Vanenbw wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 6:54 am
I haven't tried placing my kyusu on the gram scale yet. I either fill my kyusu or houhin to the top, which is 160ml, or I measure in a Pyrex measuring cup.
Most of the time, I use my (rather small) teapot full, so I do not measure water. However, if I need to, I find using a scale is nice : it is already out on the counter (I always use it to measure leaves), and it avoids having another vessel to take into account in water temperature control.

Recently, I have been doing more experiments with water temperature, preheating the teapot or not, and leaf/water ratio using the same sencha. Preheating makes a surprising difference and you would not use the same water temperature to infuse with or without preheating. To my taste, more leaf is not always better : it seems to me the balance between aromatics and other aspects of the tasting experience changes in a way such that something is lost or overpowered past a certain limit. There is a tea I am going to infuse just now for which my conclusion is 70C/120s with 2g/100ml yields a result I prefer to the recommended 60C/80s with 4g/100ml.

Obviously, this is a matter of preference, but the variation in the results has surprised me and reinforces the importance of experimenting different "recipes". The same tea can go from "uninteresting" to "surprisingly good", and it is not just a matter of investing more in the cup by cranking up the amount of leaf. To me, sometimes less is more.
Post Reply