What Green Are You Drinking

[LeoFox]

I think the general advice along this line is that teaware has marginal impact.
http://www.marshaln.com/2009/04/friday-april-24-2009/

That post states that teaware is (in the author's opinion) the least cost effective way to improve tea. This does not mean that the impact on tea is negligible, but rather that it is cheaper to improve by first getting better water, better tea, and learning how to brew the tea. It says "[the impact of teaware is] not that obvious if you're newer to tea", which implies that if you are more experience the effect can be obvious. It says teaware is expensive and unpredictable, which seems fair to me (the effect can be obvious... and bad).

Take the analogy of sport equipment. I am not going to become a high-performance cyclist buy purchasing a, expensive, high-performance bicycle. I can buy all the bicycles I want and hop from one to the other, it will not make me climb hills fast. But to a trained athlete, equipment is something to be paid attention to, because the small extra it bring can make a meaningful difference.

The fact is that I can experience extreme differences depending on teaware for the same tea to the point they taste like different teas at vastly different quality ranges.

Additionally, this is the quote:

The benefits (if any) they offer are usually marginal, and not that obvious if you’re newer to tea

This is how I am reading it: He is not implying that it is marginal only for neophytes. He is implying that it is marginal and then this marginal impact is only really noticeable if you are experienced. For me, it is no where close to marginal. It is huge.

[faj]

The fact is that I can experience extreme differences depending on teaware for the same tea to the point they taste like different teas at vastly different quality ranges.

To me, it seems to be it is easier to make a big negative difference with a teapot than making a big positive difference (compared to, say, a neutral vessel). I do not care much how much worse teapot A performs compared to teapot B if a neutral vessel beats them both. Beating a neutral vessel tends, I think, to often be a matter of smaller differences.

I tend to see a teapot a bit like EQ for sound : if you notice an obvious, big change, it is likely to be that the change is detrimental, even if it sounds "fun" at first. If you are looking to improve on the neutral sound, you will probably have to make small, selective adjustments, and they may not be that obvious in the end even though they improve the experience enough that is worth EQing in the first place.

[Iheartea]

right this minute, Yuuki-cha genmai-cha

[Victoria]

Enjoyed reading your exchange regarding clay and teaware’s effect on tea @LeoFox and @faj. I see a collector in the making Leo, you are missing Shudei, Banko, Bizen, Shigaraki, Hakudei kyusu . Besides the clay itself Japanese kyusu especially vary greatly in form, proportion, scale and firing. All these factor into my choosing a particular teapot to pair with each tea. Once I’ve made a pairing I pretty much stick to that having found good results. With today’s Sae Midori sencha I’ve been pairing it with a Junzo kobiwako kyusu for over a year. The larger 240ml volume, the horizontal form with a wide opening that cools, the absorbing slightly porous clay that thickens the brew all contribute to a good session with this particular sencha.

[McScooter]

Have been working through Kettl's Zairai Gold Shincha almost daily. Very rich umami, almost gyokuro-like depending on brewing parameters. Too bad it's sold out, as I probably would have purchased more. Trying to enjoy it while still "fresh," and so that I can clear room to try more Japanese greens. It's been a great if not slightly over the top daily.

As an aside, I agree with @LeoFox's observations regarding clay vis a vis MarshalN's post. The impact on tea is greatly noticeable depending on the tea/clay pairing, newb or no newb. I definitely did a double take when reading that blog post. I agree that quality water and tea yields a better return on investment, but clay can definitely enhance the experience in a similar way that seasoning can enhance already quality meat. Think I'll be flipping a coin on Nosaka vs. Sado Mumyoi soon so that I can mess with my sencha's even further.

[pedant]

Sinensis gyo

Sinensis-Yokkaichi-Gyokuro.jpg (60.4 KiB) Viewed 4067 times

still enjoying this gyo from the group buy.
new porcelain cups

[McScooter]

still enjoying this gyo from the group buy.
new porcelain cups

Is that a Nosaka pot or a Gisui? Reminds me of the latter, but if the former, how's the gyokuro after a prolonged steep? Does it suck out a lot of notes after steeping that long? Heard somewhat conflicting things about Nosaka's effects, but tempted to find out firsthand via a buy.

[pedant]

still enjoying this gyo from the group buy.

Is that a Nosaka pot or a Gisui?

that is a yamada jozan iv
(AKA yamada emu)

[McScooter]

that is a yamada jozan iv
(AKA yamada emu)

Ahh, so obvious when looking at it on a proper screen as I am now. Had my eye on a similar pot, but hoping to pick up one of Yamada Sou's wood-fired kyusu's soon. Trying to convince myself that I need to spend that kind of money

Mid morning session with some of Kettl's Kirishima Tokujou. While rich in umami, it can be a slighly finicky brew due to a slight astringency that can pop up, pending parameters. Brewed with less leaf (~2g per 100ml in this 170ml pot) and lower temp today (160F). Quite nice, but lacking in the umami punch a bit so should have brewed a wee bit longer. Nevertheless it's a really nice Saturday morning brunch type brew.

[Victoria]

...While rich in umami, it can be a slighly finicky brew due to a slight astringency that can pop up, pending parameters. Brewed with less leaf (~2g per 100ml in this 170ml pot) and lower temp today (160F). Quite nice, but lacking in the umami punch a bit so should have brewed a wee bit longer....

A mayake Sou will be a nice addition to your collection @McScooter. Did you try more leaf lower temp yet? Like 6g/100ml/145f/90sec. or even 10g/100ml/140f/90sec. I find when sencha lacks ummph it does well with more leaf/cooler temperature.

[LeoFox]

...While rich in umami, it can be a slighly finicky brew due to a slight astringency that can pop up, pending parameters. Brewed with less leaf (~2g per 100ml in this 170ml pot) and lower temp today (160F). Quite nice, but lacking in the umami punch a bit so should have brewed a wee bit longer....

A mayake Sou will be a nice addition to your collection McScooter. Did you try more leaf lower temp yet? Like 6g/100ml/145f/90sec. or even 10g/100ml/140f/90sec. I find when sencha lacks ummph it does well with more leaf/cooler temperature.

You could also try a different cup. I have that exact cup and I find it a bit muting for some reason compared to thin jin de zhen porcelain.

[McScooter]

A mayake Sou will be a nice addition to your collection McScooter. Did you try more leaf lower temp yet? Like 6g/100ml/145f/90sec. or even 10g/100ml/140f/90sec. I find when sencha lacks ummph it does well with more leaf/cooler temperature.

I haven't tried the ratios you mentioned, but 6g/100ml is exactly where I planned to head next, and 145 @ 90 seconds sounds right. I'm also going to give it a prolonged (~18min) brew at room temperature to see what happens. I brew gyokuro that way during the summer months, and serve it in long-stemmed, whiskey snifter type glasses. Might sound odd, but it ends up being both a rich and refreshing beverage at the same time. I think this sencha could be a candidate. Of course, by the time I figure out my favorite parameters, I'll be all of out of this particular tea

[McScooter]

You could also try a different cup. I have that exact cup and I find it a bit muting for some reason compared to thin jin de zhen porcelain.

That's interesting - I swear I've perceived the same in comparison to a couple of yunomi, but chalked it up to other factors such as shape, heat retention, etc. I remember thinking the difference was quite pronounced when I brewed some younger sheng from Naka and had it in this cup. A different experience relative to the smaller 30ml gong fu porcelain cups I use, but again chalked it up to other factors. I'm going to have to do a side by side.

[LeoFox]

You could also try a different cup. I have that exact cup and I find it a bit muting for some reason compared to thin jin de zhen porcelain.

That's interesting - I swear I've perceived the same in comparison to a couple of yunomi, but chalked it up to other factors such as shape, heat retention, etc. I remember thinking the difference was quite pronounced when I brewed some younger sheng from Naka and had it in this cup. A different experience relative to the smaller 30ml gong fu porcelain cups I use, but again chalked it up to other factors. I'm going to have to do a side by side.

I've only noticed this recently as I've adopted a "chao zhou" style brewing with multiple different cups being showered by the same pot of tea. Another rabbit hole, hahahaha

[Victoria]

A mayake Sou will be a nice addition to your collection McScooter. Did you try more leaf lower temp yet? Like 6g/100ml/145f/90sec. or even 10g/100ml/140f/90sec. I find when sencha lacks ummph it does well with more leaf/cooler temperature.

I haven't tried the ratios you mentioned, but 6g/100ml is exactly where I planned to head next, and 145 @ 90 seconds sounds right. I'm also going to give it a prolonged (~18min) brew at room temperature to see what happens. I brew gyokuro that way during the summer months, and serve it in long-stemmed, whiskey snifter type glasses. Might sound odd, but it ends up being both a rich and refreshing beverage at the same time. I think this sencha could be a candidate. Of course, by the time I figure out my favorite parameters, I'll be all of out of this particular tea

Sounds like a nice plan really. Room temperature steeping can be rich. I keep a log so that next time I have a baseline to go off of that worked well in the past. I like switching cups depending on which gyokuro or sencha I’m having, low, wide, tall, thick, thin, light, heavy, makes a big difference how tea is experienced aesthetically and in terms of cooling factor to an increase in flavor experience. Most of my fine porcelain cups are Japanese antiques, and honestly I don’t notice a significant impact different glazing has on taste, but maybe I’m just not sensitive in this regard.